Abortion? or No Abortion?

Master CoG wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:

Master CoG wrote:If ur against abortion u might as well be a vegetarian.



If your not, your a hypocrite

I guess you have a problem in diferentiating species?

And, hypocrite? No sir, your the hypocrite, because you are too young to know what a human life REALLY values. You dont HAVE that ideal, that mind set. Its easy to kill a human being when its all looking like a video game to you. Of course, your also a man, so youll eventually NEVER learn that value.

And Nihil, when i wanna know what YOUR MOM thinks, ill ask her. Didnt ask what YOUR MOM thinks, because im 100% sure if i asked YOUR MOM if she would abort Mr. Nihil, she would say no, else she really has no mother love for you.

My mom is pro-choice and ofc if u ask a mother such as nihil's she'd say she would never abort him. But that's also because she chose to have a kid as well as the ability to maintain him

Whats the difference between that and a stupid bitch who decided not to use condoms and create a potential human being just to kill it right after? So the difference is wether or not the mother LIKES the idea of a baby? The difference is because one did it to actually have a baby, and the other just to get cum into her pussy? I AGREE that abortion is personal, but then again, why not legalize ecstasy and let each personal's opinion of drugs fuck them up or not....

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
And, lol Soul, you need to search what pre cum is....

Yeah...lets not give sex ed to minors on this forum anymore..

Dray The Fingerless wrote:

Nihil wrote:Sperm cells can be considered unique Dray, half are x and half are y. Also, mutations during meiosis is inevitable, not to mention that heterozygous alleles, they are unique too.

A person, then, by your definition could be a brain-dead individual, with no hope of being brought back, but, we kill them, most of the time, I believe. They are nominally human, but have no thoughts, feelings, or memories or, really, anything attributed to a human, besides a body and a mind.

Dray, I could argue back too, that the potential human, in the case of rape, shouldn't be punished for the mistakes of the father, just as a woman, except, a women can feel, think, and have memories and such, a fetus doesn't, so, do you agree with me?

Finally, I need to add, Women don't go around and think, heck I can go get it aborted, no one wants to get themselves cut open in surgery? Comon' throw that line away, its completely useless and doesn't work, as I just showed.

I am not in the path to find guilt, im in the path to find innocent, while the man is the guilty in rape, and its his fualt of the baby, you have to have in account the other PRE existing human he hurt, the mother, wich is what i consider the reason for abortion. In case of plain out stupid sex, both parents were dumb and chose it, and the only one who will suffer for it is the potential baby coming from it.

And, lol Soul, you need to search what pre cum is....

Aha! that is where we differ and the point you are missing that I have made repeatedly. I say that the fetus won't suffer, it can't think feel or have any other non-quantitative mammalian functions, with regards solely to itself, being that it does, but it cannot judge that, since it cannot think or feel or whatever. People talk about giving a voice to a fetus, I say, that fetus has no voice, being that it cannot think and is not conscious.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:

Master CoG wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:

Master CoG wrote:If ur against abortion u might as well be a vegetarian.



If your not, your a hypocrite

I guess you have a problem in diferentiating species?

And, hypocrite? No sir, your the hypocrite, because you are too young to know what a human life REALLY values. You dont HAVE that ideal, that mind set. Its easy to kill a human being when its all looking like a video game to you. Of course, your also a man, so youll eventually NEVER learn that value.

And Nihil, when i wanna know what YOUR MOM thinks, ill ask her. Didnt ask what YOUR MOM thinks, because im 100% sure if i asked YOUR MOM if she would abort Mr. Nihil, she would say no, else she really has no mother love for you.

My mom is pro-choice and ofc if u ask a mother such as nihil's she'd say she would never abort him. But that's also because she chose to have a kid as well as the ability to maintain him

Whats the difference between that and a stupid bitch who decided not to use condoms and create a potential human being just to kill it right after? So the difference is wether or not the mother LIKES the idea of a baby? The difference is because one did it to actually have a baby, and the other just to get cum into her pussy? I AGREE that abortion is personal, but then again, why not legalize ecstasy and let each personal's opinion of drugs fuck them up or not....

There is a difference, ecstasy puts others at risk, actual human beings with emotions, family, feelings Etc. it is a poor comparison, unless, of course, you envision a country where there are back-ally abortions with a coat hangar. I don't like your policy of, its your fault bitch because we can't punish the father.

i dont like your policy of, she can destroy unborn babies galore as much as she wants just because. I dont see HOW you wanna punish the raper without making the innocent woman thru labor. I wanna punish the rapist by putting him into jail, because if you dont put him in jail, that means you were unable to catch him, and if your unable to catch him, that means you dont know who he is, and if you dont know who he is, you cant send child support notice to Anonymous can you? Our difference is that, you only see a bunch of cells, i see a new future human being that is going to be born. If its both parents guilt on the pregnancy, hell yes, make them pay. If its a rape, you have only a innocent woman who did not bring this on her self and thus should not suffer for human beings, because i still believe in equality of life, and since the father is either in jail or anonymous, you cnat do anth about the raper.

Also, ecstasy puts only yourself at risk. Does smoking put others at risk? Does driving? well if your dumb enough to take a car pool from a drunk driver, you got whats coming at you.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:i dont like your policy of, she can destroy unborn babies galore as much as she wants just because. I dont see HOW you wanna punish the raper without making the innocent woman thru labor. I wanna punish the rapist by putting him into jail, because if you dont put him in jail, that means you were unable to catch him, and if your unable to catch him, that means you dont know who he is, and if you dont know who he is, you cant send child support notice to Anonymous can you? Our difference is that, you only see a bunch of cells, i see a new future human being that is going to be born. If its both parents guilt on the pregnancy, hell yes, make them pay. If its a rape, you have only a innocent woman who did not bring this on her self and thus should not suffer for human beings, because i still believe in equality of life, and since the father is either in jail or anonymous, you cnat do anth about the raper.

Also, ecstasy puts only yourself at risk. Does smoking put others at risk? Does driving? well if your dumb enough to take a car pool from a drunk driver, you got whats coming at you.

Dray, I answered that, its not like these women are promiscuous truly want to go under the scissors and knife each time she is pregnant... Seriously? Would you like to be cut open each time you are pregnant? I'm not even talking about rape, I'm talking about how you punish the women who make a mistake and let the man go free, a mistake as in, unprotected sex. Almost each time you argue Dray, you talk about the Girl using a condom. No. It doesn't work one way, that is sexist, the man is just as responsible, but, you don't punish him, that is wrong. Dray, your draconian idea regarding punishment is wrong. That will not 'solve' a problem that is endemic to society, that is, natural urges. Sexual Education and higher living standards will solve it, but punishing those who know not, don't tell me that they know, because they don't, they exhibit the cultural influences of those around them and haven't received the education to know otherwise, will not. But either way, Dray, would you treat a zombie as a human being? Considering both that it is not, and that a fetus is not, and that one used to be and that one will be?

Something that does not think, feel, or exhibit anything truly unique in their mental life, as they cannot until they are born, that is a fetus. Dray you said you think of it as a future human, but that does not address the central point being that it has no 'life' and cannot think or feel and such. For all we know this child could turn into a murderer, someone who kills those with actual connections. In fact, many societies practiced infanticide out of necessity of growing numbers, such as Japan. At this point, we have reached that stage again, the world is growing overpopulated and there are not enough resources to sustain us. Does that mean we party it out hard? Not really.

Two simple reasons in that paragraph^

Nihil wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:i dont like your policy of, she can destroy unborn babies galore as much as she wants just because. I dont see HOW you wanna punish the raper without making the innocent woman thru labor. I wanna punish the rapist by putting him into jail, because if you dont put him in jail, that means you were unable to catch him, and if your unable to catch him, that means you dont know who he is, and if you dont know who he is, you cant send child support notice to Anonymous can you? Our difference is that, you only see a bunch of cells, i see a new future human being that is going to be born. If its both parents guilt on the pregnancy, hell yes, make them pay. If its a rape, you have only a innocent woman who did not bring this on her self and thus should not suffer for human beings, because i still believe in equality of life, and since the father is either in jail or anonymous, you cnat do anth about the raper.

Also, ecstasy puts only yourself at risk. Does smoking put others at risk? Does driving? well if your dumb enough to take a car pool from a drunk driver, you got whats coming at you.

Dray, I answered that, its not like these women are promiscuous truly want to go under the scissors and knife each time she is pregnant... Seriously? Would you like to be cut open each time you are pregnant? I'm not even talking about rape, I'm talking about how you punish the women who make a mistake and let the man go free, a mistake as in, unprotected sex. Almost each time you argue Dray, you talk about the Girl using a condom. No. It doesn't work one way, that is sexist, the man is just as responsible, but, you don't punish him, that is wrong. Dray, your draconian idea regarding punishment is wrong. That will not 'solve' a problem that is endemic to society, that is, natural urges. Sexual Education and higher living standards will solve it, but punishing those who know not, don't tell me that they know, because they don't, they exhibit the cultural influences of those around them and haven't received the education to know otherwise, will not. But either way, Dray, would you treat a zombie as a human being? Considering both that it is not, and that a fetus is not, and that one used to be and that one will be?

Something that does not think, feel, or exhibit anything truly unique in their mental life, as they cannot until they are born, that is a fetus. Dray you said you think of it as a future human, but that does not address the central point being that it has no 'life' and cannot think or feel and such. For all we know this child could turn into a murderer, someone who kills those with actual connections. In fact, many societies practiced infanticide out of necessity of growing numbers, such as Japan. At this point, we have reached that stage again, the world is growing overpopulated and there are not enough resources to sustain us. Does that mean we party it out hard? Not really.

Two simple reasons in that paragraph^

You forget that abortion is a woman's event. Of course i agree in the man being punished as well, if the kid is born, he better do something about it. And Nihil, you speak of Sex Ed, but this abortion legalization just makes sex ed useless! whats the point of teaching them how NOT to get a baby, if they can just kill it whenever tthey want? You seem to think that you live in a generation where people are responsible and family caring. You dont! Kids and Teenagers dont care for nothing but themselves. This will just make abortion a standard instead of a last resort. That is why it shouldnt be legal. Overpopulation isnt happening here you twat. It happens in China, and India, and 3rd world Countries. If anything, Our countries need more babies. If anything, go teach Sex Ed THERE, before teaching it here. Abortion now is not a nice idea taken lightly by a woman, but legalize it for all the drug headed teens and baby childs of america who only want to suck on their parents titties till 25 and dont care about anyone else. Give them abortion. See if they wont gladly cut their bellies open 20 times. Wich btw, isnt how abortion happens. Unless you decide to abort 7 months in, wich is plain stupid. Unprotected sex is as much a mistake Nihil as doing drugs Nihil. You know very well its gonna fuck you up, but you do it anyway becuz your a twat. And putting aside the whole killing unborn babies, it is just stupid to morally give this to people, taking away a super responsibility. Having babies is a pretty big fucking deal for our existence, and now if you standardize this, it pretty much takes out any morality or responsibility it has. You SHOULDNT GET a second opinion after getting pregnant. IT SHOULD BE a heavy decision and responsibility to know NOT to get pregnant. Im not even thinking much about the individual, more how this will affect society. Bearing a child shoud be a peak in anyone's life. A moral and responsible choice that defines you. A point of no return. I cant even fathom to think in what ways making it a common event that you can just rewind and change your decision, will affect us.

You will eventually have to agree to disagree, I dare you to come to an agreement otherwise. You two will never convince each other of either point no matter how valid it is.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:

Nihil wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:i dont like your policy of, she can destroy unborn babies galore as much as she wants just because. I dont see HOW you wanna punish the raper without making the innocent woman thru labor. I wanna punish the rapist by putting him into jail, because if you dont put him in jail, that means you were unable to catch him, and if your unable to catch him, that means you dont know who he is, and if you dont know who he is, you cant send child support notice to Anonymous can you? Our difference is that, you only see a bunch of cells, i see a new future human being that is going to be born. If its both parents guilt on the pregnancy, hell yes, make them pay. If its a rape, you have only a innocent woman who did not bring this on her self and thus should not suffer for human beings, because i still believe in equality of life, and since the father is either in jail or anonymous, you cnat do anth about the raper.

Also, ecstasy puts only yourself at risk. Does smoking put others at risk? Does driving? well if your dumb enough to take a car pool from a drunk driver, you got whats coming at you.

Dray, I answered that, its not like these women are promiscuous truly want to go under the scissors and knife each time she is pregnant... Seriously? Would you like to be cut open each time you are pregnant? I'm not even talking about rape, I'm talking about how you punish the women who make a mistake and let the man go free, a mistake as in, unprotected sex. Almost each time you argue Dray, you talk about the Girl using a condom. No. It doesn't work one way, that is sexist, the man is just as responsible, but, you don't punish him, that is wrong. Dray, your draconian idea regarding punishment is wrong. That will not 'solve' a problem that is endemic to society, that is, natural urges. Sexual Education and higher living standards will solve it, but punishing those who know not, don't tell me that they know, because they don't, they exhibit the cultural influences of those around them and haven't received the education to know otherwise, will not. But either way, Dray, would you treat a zombie as a human being? Considering both that it is not, and that a fetus is not, and that one used to be and that one will be?

Something that does not think, feel, or exhibit anything truly unique in their mental life, as they cannot until they are born, that is a fetus. Dray you said you think of it as a future human, but that does not address the central point being that it has no 'life' and cannot think or feel and such. For all we know this child could turn into a murderer, someone who kills those with actual connections. In fact, many societies practiced infanticide out of necessity of growing numbers, such as Japan. At this point, we have reached that stage again, the world is growing overpopulated and there are not enough resources to sustain us. Does that mean we party it out hard? Not really.

Two simple reasons in that paragraph^

You forget that abortion is a woman's event. Of course i agree in the man being punished as well, if the kid is born, he better do something about it. And Nihil, you speak of Sex Ed, but this abortion legalization just makes sex ed useless! whats the point of teaching them how NOT to get a baby, if they can just kill it whenever tthey want? You seem to think that you live in a generation where people are responsible and family caring. You dont! Kids and Teenagers dont care for nothing but themselves. This will just make abortion a standard instead of a last resort. That is why it shouldnt be legal. Overpopulation isnt happening here you twat. It happens in China, and India, and 3rd world Countries. If anything, Our countries need more babies. If anything, go teach Sex Ed THERE, before teaching it here. Abortion now is not a nice idea taken lightly by a woman, but legalize it for all the drug headed teens and baby childs of america who only want to suck on their parents titties till 25 and dont care about anyone else. Give them abortion. See if they wont gladly cut their bellies open 20 times. Wich btw, isnt how abortion happens. Unless you decide to abort 7 months in, wich is plain stupid. Unprotected sex is as much a mistake Nihil as doing drugs Nihil. You know very well its gonna fuck you up, but you do it anyway becuz your a twat. And putting aside the whole killing unborn babies, it is just stupid to morally give this to people, taking away a super responsibility. Having babies is a pretty big fucking deal for our existence, and now if you standardize this, it pretty much takes out any morality or responsibility it has. You SHOULDNT GET a second opinion after getting pregnant. IT SHOULD BE a heavy decision and responsibility to know NOT to get pregnant. Im not even thinking much about the individual, more how this will affect society. Bearing a child shoud be a peak in anyone's life. A moral and responsible choice that defines you. A point of no return. I cant even fathom to think in what ways making it a common event that you can just rewind and change your decision, will affect us.

Over population http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1999/06/99/world_population/377091.stm

You talk about this moral conundrum, look at where you and I live, we have abortions legalized, and so far, we are not any worse for it. And yes, I took a liberal extension of word usage there, but still, it can be invasive, sometimes, or it can be medicinal, early weeks.

Dray, unprotected sex is fine, lady can get an abortion, there is just, however, a social stigma to this kind of behavior. We recognize the fetus as potential but not complete life in the U.S, that is, until the third trimester, which seems completely rational to me, even if not as radical as I would prefer it to be. Dray, drugs kill thinking feelings people, not unfeeling and unthinking fetuses, at least, drugs can, that is why they are illegal, just like drinking and driving. But killing a fetus doesn't harm anyone, and the child, in a sense, is better off for it. To be quite honest, which is better? To have never have lived and to have never feared death or to live and deal with humanity and the fear of death and the uncertainty of life. Having children, Dray, is a big deal for our existence, its just that we distinguish it from a fetus. I feel that I should again, point to America and say, we aren't any worse for abortions being legal. Perhaps Dray, the reason you can't imagine it is because you were not born a girl in a poor socioeconomic class with minimal positive influences and the norm being sex. Dray, you say you are fine with sex at any age for kids, but you also say that you don't like abortions and that you want the to use protection, so what happens when protection fails? Why is it that you wish to punish those who know no better?

More importantly, what horrible cultural effect will having abortion have on us? Its been legal for how many years now and would you say we are any less moral than the Reagan years?

And Claudio, the best part about this is the challenge for opposites to change me and for myself to change opposites, I don't mind being wrong, I want to see if others can change me or if I can change others.

Nihil wrote:
Dray, unprotected sex is fine, lady can get an abortion

Sigh

I'd like to see it happen but lets just say I don't think minds will change at the end of it, carry on.

dandaman7 wrote:

Nihil wrote:
Dray, unprotected sex is fine, lady can get an abortion

Sigh

its morally wrong for you to have unprotected sex dan? Or is it morally wrong to kill something that isn't really a human?

To be clear, it would be hard for me, if I was a female, to have an abortion, because, thats just the way I am, but I see no reason for others to not have access to it. It is healthy, however, more importantly, unprotected sex, can, and most of the time will, lead to an STD...

Nihil wrote:

dandaman7 wrote:

Nihil wrote:
Dray, unprotected sex is fine, lady can get an abortion

Sigh

its morally wrong for you to have unprotected sex dan? Or is it morally wrong to kill something that isn't really a human?

To be clear, it would be hard for me, if I was a female, to have an abortion, because, thats just the way I am, but I see no reason for others to not have access to it. It is healthy, however, more importantly, unprotected sex, can, and most of the time will, lead to an STD...

Morally wrong? Not to have unprotected sex alone, but to have unprotected sex with the plan of just getting an abortion to solve any possible issues

Overpopulation as you call it is more a problem to do with irregular misplacement of people and resources. Nothing else.

Also, i think its worthwhile to let a baby live, even if he suffers quite a bit, because i still see those kids in Africa smile, despite everything. I think life is the ultimate blessing of luck we have.

To clarify Dist, did you just compare an unborn baby to a computer virus?

dandaman7 wrote:To clarify Dist, did you just compare an unborn baby to a computer virus?

it happens from time to time ...

claudio wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
And, lol Soul, you need to search what pre cum is....

Yeah...lets not give sex ed to minors on this forum anymore..

Ur 2 years older than I am....
I know now what it is,but I didnt understand at first, since I ain't neither from the US, neither I'm english, it's not that easy to understand everything u guys say There are terms which still confuse me

thats ok i always ask for anything even stupid, till yesterday I didnt know whats "iccl" but i asked no matter how simple it is, english is not my native language as well and i doubt ppl wld understand me i speak it serbian, lets see how google translator can help you with this

SouLCasT wrote:Cuz ppl are too dumb to pull it out? Or maybe get some fucken pills?

Him-Im gonna , Im gonna now!
Her-Pull it out!
Him-Aaaaah...What were u saying?
Her-oshi-

довољан је само један сперматзоид да се изшуња а још лакше да се то деси ако имаш незаштићен секс а после куку мајко, боље кад користиш кондом а не да прцаш па да извадиш кад је најбољи тренутак

"It takes only one spermatzoid to izšunja much easier to see it happen if you have unprotected sex after hip mother, you better use a condom and not prcaš izvadiš so that when the best moment"
......

Google translator fails so hard..I can't understand anything..

Sex after hip mother?! WTF?!

TOO LONG. you shouldnt put long sentences in it.

SouLCasT wrote:

claudio wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
And, lol Soul, you need to search what pre cum is....

Yeah...lets not give sex ed to minors on this forum anymore..

Ur 2 years older than I am....
I know now what it is,but I didnt understand at first, since I ain't neither from the US, neither I'm english, it's not that easy to understand everything u guys say There are terms which still confuse me

I'm aware I'm only 19 but what I meant is this isn't the place to learn or talk in detail about that sort of thing and I don't think it's appropriate to go into too graphic stuff with ANY -18 person anywhere let alone on a clan forum. Do that sort of thing on your own is all I'm saying...ok sorry for the off topic stuff

lmao so fail, I said one cell sperm is enough to "sneak out" and it's easier to happen when you have unprotected sex and then (in serbian spirit kuku majko means as regret, as mother cant help you with the mess you made if your girl gets pregnant, you would probably use "omg" or something like that) omg, you better use a condom and not just to fuck and to pull it out when its best moment

Disturbed wrote:your statements cause shivers down my spine Nihil. you are saying that to control population, prevent ppl from coming into being, and that they should not live for the suffering, fear of death etc. Those are givens with life, u missed out the happiness, the relationships and the impact each life makes. If Martin Luther Kings mother had had an abortion based on that detail we would be much worse off.

Think about our priorities this way:

1. Living women, faultless
2. Faultless potential life
3. Faulty women


Fix the issues is what u gotta do. If you get a virus on your computer because of visiting a porn site...using that analogy

1. Abortion is getting that virus and continuously trying to erase it, then revisiting it again because u knw u can just get rid of it

2. Not allowing abortion is abstaining from visiting the site altogether


Are porn sites the only way to get viruses? no...and u guys have a valid concern that banning that would take out all the innocents from getting it, I believe we need to find a middle ground, cuz that's seriously the ponly way.

I personally think, the best idea would be to allow abortion ONCE per person...after that there must be proof of rape or smth. Btw, with new knowledge of genetics it is quite easy to identify the fathers. If its someone not even remotely related to the woman we can assume it is rape.

First off, you are missing the point. You were saying to me that a child would miss out on the good things in life. I say, yes that is true, however, the child will not have ever experienced those and could not in their present state. Its like killing a zombie, something without emotions or feelings. How can you feel bad for killing something like that, its like killing an ant.

And your argument that we may abort people of historic importance, that is flawed in two ways: 1. By following that logic, we should all have as many children as possible, and 2. A person is not who they are at birth, a child's mind is like a sponge, nature and nurture, not one or the other.

Abortion is not your choice, but the women's, I don't think that people will go out and have unprotected sex all the time with abortions allowed, because, Just look at society today! We have decreasing abortion rates, which does not lend to your views of increased promiscuity of society.


In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[26] Another study, in 1998, revealed that in 1987-1988 women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:[27]
25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
3.3% Risk to fetal health
2.8% Risk to maternal health
2.1% Other
According to a 1987 study that included specific data about late abortions (i.e. abortions “at 16 or more weeks' gestation”),[28] women reported that various reasons contributed to their having a late abortion:
71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

This also lends a more human face to the issue, Woman have lives, the Draconian policy that you press is completely unfair. I don't want to encourage abortions, I want to encourage safe sex, though there is nothing wrong with unsafe sex except STD chances. And, it completely depends on the person's feelings, since no one knows when life actually begins, though it is commonly judged to be later, third trimester? I'm not sure, as the person may believe that abortion is OK, so she will get an abortion, others may not feel that abortions are OK and they won't get an abortion. Be happy about that, but don't try to control other peoples' sexual lives.