Debate on "spamming" saber styles.

Sorry for the OT guys, I just realized this is getting wayy off course now. >.>

back OnT please.

HMMMM, i didnt notice this was in the Rancor Pit. Sorry, just came back from hot trip on sun on foot.

SOOOOO, yeah. Saber style spams.....i guess i have said my part in this. Dun care who spams, its annoying but doesnt mean i have the right to bitch about it. Its not hacking, so its a legal strategy. Best i can do is get better than it.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:HMMMM, i didnt notice this was in the Rancor Pit. Sorry, just came back from hot trip on sun on foot.

SOOOOO, yeah. Saber style spams.....i guess i have said my part in this. Dun care who spams, its annoying but doesnt mean i have the right to bitch about it. Its not hacking, so its a legal strategy. Best i can do is get better than it.

Now this is the open-minded perspective I am looking for.

*Resists urge to make joke about open mindedness*

Well we dont support spam in this clan, since it goes against being a better saberist in skill, but if someone wants to spam, be our guest. There are no repercussions to it.

Sarah wrote:

Mass. wrote:its not a trick... its common knowledge. Its all about timing and if you know how to break the others spam. I dont call staff users "noob" or "inferior" but people that use staff like yourself and Dan ( no offence to you both ) and just hold the button and go left and right and add a little spin, it takes no skill at all. I could bring a someone brand new into the game and tell them to hold attack and go left and right and they would think they are good. But i could bring them in and actaully teach them staff and they would think they are great and then know that "spamming" is a style that does not take very much skill at all. And i have fanned against other staffers that fanned or more commonly known as spam and in ja+ its all about luck. Parries and Blocks are wierd in the mod and it just turns it into a game of luck. Oh and a Fan is 3-4 consecutive swings. A spam is a infinite never ending number of swings until the user stops. Learn staff and the other styles then come back with a stronger base. Because i for one know all three of the styles and can argue on the side of either of them. Neither one is better then the other as i showed Xzavier who is a good saberist and knows alot about the game.

Good points, however I will still argue against the claim that fanning staff takes no skill. You are welcome to go get someone brand new to the game and try fan staffing against my staff fan and see who comes out on top, I guarantee you I can overpower the brand new persons fan with mine, it takes more skill than you think, if you do not believe me, your welcome to duel me and we will only use staff fan and see who wins, there's more strategy than just holding down the key, people who think that's the only thing involved in fanning obviously do not know how to fan, and I invite you to have a fan-duel with me to test the validity of that theory.

So all you would be proving by winning a staff spamming fight is that you're better at spamming than me. That just proves my point even more why would I even want to engage in a spam fight with you? I realize you're not talking to me but still all it would prove is you can spam better and you're not gonna get far if you spam...

Aragorn wrote:

Sarah wrote:

Mass. wrote:its not a trick... its common knowledge. Its all about timing and if you know how to break the others spam. I dont call staff users "noob" or "inferior" but people that use staff like yourself and Dan ( no offence to you both ) and just hold the button and go left and right and add a little spin, it takes no skill at all. I could bring a someone brand new into the game and tell them to hold attack and go left and right and they would think they are good. But i could bring them in and actaully teach them staff and they would think they are great and then know that "spamming" is a style that does not take very much skill at all. And i have fanned against other staffers that fanned or more commonly known as spam and in ja+ its all about luck. Parries and Blocks are wierd in the mod and it just turns it into a game of luck. Oh and a Fan is 3-4 consecutive swings. A spam is a infinite never ending number of swings until the user stops. Learn staff and the other styles then come back with a stronger base. Because i for one know all three of the styles and can argue on the side of either of them. Neither one is better then the other as i showed Xzavier who is a good saberist and knows alot about the game.

Good points, however I will still argue against the claim that fanning staff takes no skill. You are welcome to go get someone brand new to the game and try fan staffing against my staff fan and see who comes out on top, I guarantee you I can overpower the brand new persons fan with mine, it takes more skill than you think, if you do not believe me, your welcome to duel me and we will only use staff fan and see who wins, there's more strategy than just holding down the key, people who think that's the only thing involved in fanning obviously do not know how to fan, and I invite you to have a fan-duel with me to test the validity of that theory.

So all you would be proving by winning a staff spamming fight is that you're better at spamming than me. That just proves my point even more why would I even want to engage in a spam fight with you? I realize you're not talking to me but still all it would prove is you can spam better and you're not gonna get far if you spam...

You keep taking things that I say and twisting them into something else. Your right, I wasn't talking to you, but I'll still explain. The only reason I suggested staff fanning fight is because Mass was claiming that a person brand new to the game can come in with a staff fan and still win, I said what I said to prove to Mass that his/her statement was not true, you need to know how to use the fan if you want to employ it's power appropriately.

Spamming itself is useful, but constant spamming is counter productive against skilled saberists and is thus looked down upon. Useful well timed spam, along with other tactics will give you more smiles.

Champion wrote:Useful well timed spam, along with other tactics will give you more smiles.

That's exactly what I strive to achieve.

I am not smiling while playing ,tho am laughing

It's sad you try to achieve perfect spam when there are other uses for staff that require more skill and can do just as much damage.

If you only do it in short intervals then it's not a spam. Spamming in and of itself a sign of a poor player because it means they don't know any other worthwhile moves and have to resort to repeating the move that IS effective. In this Aragorn is right, spamming is a sign of someone untalented, Champ and Dray are also right, it is a legitimate strategy and it's not against the rules so arguing against it is pointless.

Now I know what the replies will be that it's all fine a good, but I think most of you have gotten off-track and are viewing spam as just staff fanning when it's not. It's constantly repeating the same move with almost no deviation. If you have a staff and don't fan non-stop, then its not spamming, its simply fanning with a bit of strategy thrown in.

So in recap, spam is bad, when you actually use it accurately as repeating the same move without change.

In anything you do there are two necessities to improving: 1. Knowledge of how to perform. 2. The ability to utilize that knowledge effectively. The difference between people is solely do to these two things. They may have more knowledge of moves and be able to perform more then you, or they may just be able to utilize the move better then you can. Spam is the exact opposite of this, it doesn't further your ability to utilize the move, nor does it give you new insight and knowledge.

Aragorn wrote:No. Right out of the gate, you are already putting words in my mouth... I said people who spam are inferior fighters because they have to resort to it to win not that all staffers are spammers and inferior fighters. I know staffers who don't spam when they use it... I do have basis for why spamming is noobish as I explained on the server but you wouldn't listen to what I said, so I'll reiterate. Yellow and staff is fast and overpowered. If you can get a successful fan with full staff, you can kill someone in two seconds, even breaking a red block with that fan, you can fan continuously and not even break a sweat. Thats why people spam staff because it's easy to kill people with it without even having to try. Same with katas. You were saying that only noobs used katas but that the style wasn't noobish. That makes no sense as, per your opinion that only noobs use katas, kata is noobish.

ik im quoting you from a while ago, but i just saw this, and went oh mah gawd. Anyone who knows me knows my yellow (ara calls spam, which it vary well is, but i control it, so i call it a controlled spam (By definition spam is uncontrolled, so i dont understand why if i have complete control of sevral swings to hit someone between there attacks [that takes skill] why is it spam))

Aragorn, i have a question, if your in close quaters, would you rather use a sniper rifle (Red) great for long range and aiming, very poor at cq tho. Or a M-16 (yellow) Yes call it spam, but when they made the m-16, they made it to shoot fast, so you can kill at close range, aragorn your telling everyone to go play the game with a sniper rifle.... that wont happen, its like, i want to use a yellow to kill fast, you call it spam, i say if i can control it, its a series of quick strikes.

Id just like a counterarguement from aragorn (or aard) only. I just jumped into this reading until i saw this quote.

Hmm thats not something you can really ask because a good sniper wouldn't be in close quarters combat and that person using the M-16 (if they were going for the sniper) would be dead because a skilled sniper would get a head shot or at least a kill shot before the other person got close. Even though your example is flawed, in that instance an M-16 would be best but a gun is different than a lightsaber. Red can penetrate yellows attack and get a hit or block strikes even in close range. So you're comparing two very different things...

i'll play third party and say that to me you fight your way of fighting. Every style is unique in its own way. Whether it be spamming, kata, twirl, or butterflying, you fight in some way. But it takes true skill to spam tbh. if you can use the spamming and katas and etc. effectively, then its fair game imo.

Learn more then your spam and you will be great. Stick to the spamming on your knees and you will never improve. Oh and yes a newcomers spam can beat one whos been doing it for years. I made it happen.

Aragorn wrote:Hmm thats not something you can really ask because a good sniper wouldn't be in close quarters combat and that person using the M-16 (if they were going for the sniper) would be dead because a skilled sniper would get a head shot or at least a kill shot before the other person got close. Even though your example is flawed, in that instance an M-16 would be best but a gun is different than a lightsaber. Red can penetrate yellows attack and get a hit or block strikes even in close range. So you're comparing two very different things...

So what you pretty much just said is red has a more distant footwork and yellow footwork is alot tighter and closer to the person. and yellow in close range does more damage then red, look at a fan (i hate that example) or any other series of yellow strikes, from far away the fan does nothing but you can still poke it. this requires the red user to have a more distant footwork, however for the yellow user, they need to smarten up and stick closer with there footwork to get a succesful hit. To me i see the different spacings, the simple fact that a yellow swing is faster than a reds means it has to be closer and less range. you cant get the range on yellow (easily) as you can with red (and if you can do it with yellow you can go farther with red)

do you see what im trying to say?

It doesn't necessarily do more damage though. It's easier to do more damage but if you poke with a red hit, it can do a ton of damage. I see what you're saying. Yellow is good for close quarters but red can be too, when used properly.

This is why i enjoy yellow alot, i either get in close and personal. To me if somebody can spam yellow around red, the red user should switch to yellow or just poke them. Its that simple. To me atleast.

I have fun parrying your asses. Then switching to yellow and poking your asses.

Master CoG wrote:Blue > all

sorry to say cog, but blue fails, I think you were being sarcastic though so meh.

The only time I fan is when Im either fighting a staff or duals,

when Im fighting red im more of a counter attacker, Ill walk around my opponent and when he swings ill walk slowly out of the way of his swing and come right back in a swing with yellow.

ive beaten people using only blue. its relatively easy if your patient and concentrated.

*you're

Aragorn wrote:*you're

its not *you're its you're.

please get it right before correcting people.