Debate on "spamming" saber styles.

Hello all!

I am creating this topic in order to continue a debate I was having with Hooker on saber styles. I'll give you a short synopsis of our opinions and then we will continue, anyone is free to join in with their opinions and comments, I hope Hooker and I can agree to keep personal insults out of this, as I will try my best to do so, and if I make a mistake in doing so I will do my best to correct it.

Hooker argues the side that anyone staffers that use fan consistently is deemed a spammer and therefore an inferior fighter.

I argue the side defending staff users and believe such rash claims that Hooker makes are unfounded and do not have an open minded basis, I believe that everybody should accept every style that was put in the game, not only because it would make for a better and more cooperative gaming environment, but because if you learn to accept all styles as they are, it is only then you can learn from them and become better AGAINST them and while using them. Hopefully Hooker can pick up where he left off so we can continue this, I await his response.

I think everyone has his own way and i think if u keep arguing with him about it you wont change anything. Thats why its called a saber style ,to be unique. If you cant stand watching unuque and not so much styles go play games like Combat Arms or WoW ,JKA is not your game.

Staff maybe not ,but the fighting style is.

No. Right out of the gate, you are already putting words in my mouth... I said people who spam are inferior fighters because they have to resort to it to win not that all staffers are spammers and inferior fighters. I know staffers who don't spam when they use it... I do have basis for why spamming is noobish as I explained on the server but you wouldn't listen to what I said, so I'll reiterate. Yellow and staff is fast and overpowered. If you can get a successful fan with full staff, you can kill someone in two seconds, even breaking a red block with that fan, you can fan continuously and not even break a sweat. Thats why people spam staff because it's easy to kill people with it without even having to try. Same with katas. You were saying that only noobs used katas but that the style wasn't noobish. That makes no sense as, per your opinion that only noobs use katas, kata is noobish.

Master CoG wrote:U can not spam staff.... Like I try to




but 98% of staffers spam. So I still say it requires basically no knowledge of any move but right click and crouch fan

The next time you play JKA, consider trying to fan against someone else who is fanning, you'll find it much harder than you think. I actually frequent FF servers quite often and one of the main moves is fan in between using force powers, and it took me a few years to learn how to overcome my oppodents fan so that I give the damage instead of taking it, there is a trick to fanning, but not many people realize that as they just resort to downplaying it and not even giving it a shot.

You're right. You can hit red twice and it breaks the block. You don't even have to wiggle

Why would we argue on something thats obvious? Every1 has his style and u cant change it ,you can only agree.

Sarah wrote:

Master CoG wrote:U can not spam staff.... Like I try to




but 98% of staffers spam. So I still say it requires basically no knowledge of any move but right click and crouch fan

The next time you play JKA, consider trying to fan against someone else who is fanning, you'll find it much harder than you think. I actually frequent FF servers quite often and one of the main moves is fan in between using force powers, and it took me a few years to learn how to overcome my oppodents fan so that I give the damage instead of taking it, there is a trick to fanning, but not many people realize that as they just resort to downplaying it and not even giving it a shot.

That is FF and server cfgs are basically COMPLETELY different from NF servers. In NF, fanning really doesn't take too much skill. Also since Staff is primarily to be an offensive weapon which would mean to spam it, it really is a ineffective weapon if you don't spam it in some way compared to using single

Aragorn wrote:No. Right out of the gate, you are already putting words in my mouth... I said people who spam are inferior fighters because they have to resort to it to win not that all staffers are spammers and inferior fighters. I know staffers who don't spam when they use it... I do have basis for why spamming is noobish as I explained on the server but you wouldn't listen to what I said, so I'll reiterate. Yellow and staff is fast and overpowered. If you can get a successful fan with full staff, you can kill someone in two seconds, even breaking a red block with that fan, you can fan continuously and not even break a sweat. Thats why people spam staff because it's easy to kill people with it without even having to try. Same with katas. You were saying that only noobs used katas but that the style wasn't noobish. That makes no sense as, per your opinion that only noobs use katas, kata is noobish.

My apologies, I will edit the main post and correct your position to your liking. I like to consider myself a staffer who does not spam because I use every possible directional slash, I just happen to use full staff fan more often. Making claims of any style being overpowered are null because I could say the same about red, you can kill people within 2 seconds using yellow fan but you can also kill anyone in 2 seconds poking or "glitching" red stance, for example, if I do a down slash and it hits HEAD on, I can then quickly crouch and jump straight up, causing the saber to hit more than once in ONE swing do to the fact of the swing still in progress, yet moving down and then up to repeat the damage given by the server, this will cause a one hit kill.

You say people spam staff because it's easy to kill people, which is not true at all. As I said before, if you develop ways of defeating your opponents and do it intelligently you can easily avoid dying by a staff fan, for example, if your using red and someone comes at you with a staff fan, simply jump out of the way and avoid all contact with a staff, use red downslash and crouch in order to stop the fanner in his tracks. If you cannot manage to avoid staff fans then you end up resorting to deeming it an inferior fighting stance because your frustrated and cannot defeat it. I have defeated PURE staff fanners with red MANY times in my 7 years of playing, it just takes skill and brains.

You can claim I think kata is noobish all you want, it will not change my opinion, perhaps I was erroneous in my wording, but to clarify my position on kata, I do NOT consider them noobish, my stated position and opinion overturns anything I have said in error in the past.

Talkin'boutFreedom wrote:

Sarah wrote:

Master CoG wrote:U can not spam staff.... Like I try to




but 98% of staffers spam. So I still say it requires basically no knowledge of any move but right click and crouch fan

The next time you play JKA, consider trying to fan against someone else who is fanning, you'll find it much harder than you think. I actually frequent FF servers quite often and one of the main moves is fan in between using force powers, and it took me a few years to learn how to overcome my oppodents fan so that I give the damage instead of taking it, there is a trick to fanning, but not many people realize that as they just resort to downplaying it and not even giving it a shot.

That is FF and server cfgs are basically COMPLETELY different from NF servers. In NF, fanning really doesn't take too much skill. Also since Staff is primarily to be an offensive weapon which would mean to spam it, it really is a ineffective weapon if you don't spam it in some way compared to using single

By my understanding the definition of spam is to use a certain move in repetition, in which case I would argue that ANY move with ANY stance in the game can be "spammed", for example red users "spam" red downslash.

Master CoG wrote:But on JvS the poke isnt as effective as a fan spam



And staff spam is a completely easy way to rack up kills. I don't even staff and can just ignition and will get 8 kill streaks

If timed correctly with precision a red swing will easily overpower a staff fan, which is why I do not see the point in deeming staff fan as a "noobish" or otherwise inferior style.



Quote : "And staff spam is a completely easy way to rack up kills. I don't even staff and can just ignition and will get 8 kill streaks"

That's because the people that you kill are not smart enough to get out of your way when you come plowing through with your staff, which is all the more reason to pray on the stupid people and rack up kills that way.

I spam red right hit then

its not a trick... its common knowledge. Its all about timing and if you know how to break the others spam. I dont call staff users "noob" or "inferior" but people that use staff like yourself and Dan ( no offence to you both ) and just hold the button and go left and right and add a little spin, it takes no skill at all. I could bring a someone brand new into the game and tell them to hold attack and go left and right and they would think they are good. But i could bring them in and actaully teach them staff and they would think they are great and then know that "spamming" is a style that does not take very much skill at all. And i have fanned against other staffers that fanned or more commonly known as spam and in ja+ its all about luck. Parries and Blocks are wierd in the mod and it just turns it into a game of luck. Oh and a Fan is 3-4 consecutive swings. A spam is a infinite never ending number of swings until the user stops. Learn staff and the other styles then come back with a stronger base. Because i for one know all three of the styles and can argue on the side of either of them. Neither one is better then the other as i showed Xzavier who is a good saberist and knows alot about the game.

Sarah wrote:

By my understanding the definition of spam is to use a certain move in repetition, in which case I would argue that ANY move with ANY stance in the game can be "spammed", for example red users "spam" red downslash.

Thats how i see it

I bet everyone knows where this is going.

Sarah wrote:
My apologies, I will edit the main post and correct your position to your liking. I like to consider myself a staffer who does not spam because I use every possible directional slash, I just happen to use full staff fan more often. Making claims of any style being overpowered are null because I could say the same about red, you can kill people within 2 seconds using yellow fan but you can also kill anyone in 2 seconds poking or "glitching" red stance, for example, if I do a down slash and it hits HEAD on, I can then quickly crouch and jump straight up, causing the saber to hit more than once in ONE swing do to the fact of the swing still in progress, yet moving down and then up to repeat the damage given by the server, this will cause a one hit kill.

You just proved my point that you use fan more than anything else with staff. Yeah, you can kill someone in one hit with red but it takes skill to be able to pull it off. It's not easy to do and it's a heck of a lot easier with fanning than red. Thats why people use it

Sarah wrote:You say people spam staff because it's easy to kill people, which is not true at all. As I said before, if you develop ways of defeating your opponents and do it intelligently you can easily avoid dying by a staff fan, for example, if your using red and someone comes at you with a staff fan, simply jump out of the way and avoid all contact with a staff, use red downslash and crouch in order to stop the fanner in his tracks. If you cannot manage to avoid staff fans then you end up resorting to deeming it an inferior fighting stance because your frustrated and cannot defeat it. I have defeated PURE staff fanners with red MANY times in my 7 years of playing, it just takes skill and brains.

It is the easiest way to kill people. It's the most efficient and requires the littlest skill possible. Holding the mouse button down, pressing A and D. Not hard at all. I have beaten staff spammers as well and I know how to kill them, that doesn't make it less annoying or less noobish.

Sarah wrote:You can claim I think kata is noobish all you want, it will not change my opinion, perhaps I was erroneous in my wording, but to clarify my position on kata, I do NOT consider them noobish, my stated position and opinion overturns anything I have said in error in the past.

That was my bad. From what you said on the server, it seemed you were calling kata noobish because noobs used them.

Mass. wrote:its not a trick... its common knowledge. Its all about timing and if you know how to break the others spam. I dont call staff users "noob" or "inferior" but people that use staff like yourself and Dan ( no offence to you both ) and just hold the button and go left and right and add a little spin, it takes no skill at all. I could bring a someone brand new into the game and tell them to hold attack and go left and right and they would think they are good. But i could bring them in and actaully teach them staff and they would think they are great and then know that "spamming" is a style that does not take very much skill at all. And i have fanned against other staffers that fanned or more commonly known as spam and in ja+ its all about luck. Parries and Blocks are wierd in the mod and it just turns it into a game of luck. Oh and a Fan is 3-4 consecutive swings. A spam is a infinite never ending number of swings until the user stops. Learn staff and the other styles then come back with a stronger base. Because i for one know all three of the styles and can argue on the side of either of them. Neither one is better then the other as i showed Xzavier who is a good saberist and knows alot about the game.

Good points, however I will still argue against the claim that fanning staff takes no skill. You are welcome to go get someone brand new to the game and try fan staffing against my staff fan and see who comes out on top, I guarantee you I can overpower the brand new persons fan with mine, it takes more skill than you think, if you do not believe me, your welcome to duel me and we will only use staff fan and see who wins, there's more strategy than just holding down the key, people who think that's the only thing involved in fanning obviously do not know how to fan, and I invite you to have a fan-duel with me to test the validity of that theory.