Re: Objectionable Decision Act Proposal - Suggestion

by **Disturbed** Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:41 pm

I clearly stated that was not the case, it was stated that the amendment was not to be viewed in light of any one event for this exact reason. Each event seems to have people who have diehard stances so there is no point of bickering over those.

The factions are fun roleplay, not different clans, so they must still come under the rules of the overall clan. The leadership is not 100% jedi, in fact sith have had major advantages over time as aard pointed out later on.

I have said time and again, this is not to stop anyone from passing decisions that would otherwise not affect anyone, e.g. noone could take sess to task for implementing the sith act since it does not involve anyone personally

No I do not have personal reasons, but I have been seeing this as a problem way before I even joined the clan, I just decided to get up and attempt to do something rather than let things stagnate.

Tbh, while I AM part of a faction, I personally do not care whether a person of either faction, just whether or not he is part of the clan. Whatever I try and do is to help the clan, not any particular faction. Regardless of how I may have been treated by either

by **Sqrl** Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:48 pm

I am just stating that not all documents and written laws arent manipulatable or loop-hole free.

I said it once. Now i say it again.

by Reinforce Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:59 pm

the factions are not different clans, they are different factions and each faction has their own set of rules and rulers to in which if i remember champ saying to me, can rule the way they want without interuption. champ formed this clan invision of some kind of freedom and not to be restricted by a set group of people.

with that said, the factions are not just role plays in this clan, they are appart of its entirety. tyhe fact that each faction has their own set of rules is what makes this clan successful and grows. restricting that would be like turning the clan into socialist type caln where the senate rules completly and the council is just there for show.

if you dont believe me, take a look at why this clan was formed. now if champ wants to come in and tell me that im otu right wrong in my interpretation of what he said than he may do so, but ultimatly, that's what i interpreted from champs ideals when he formed this clan.

so liek i said, why even have the two factions that are suppose to act seperatly and run on different rules if they're decisions can be overturned by a some-what outside group? just because it affects someone doesn't mean that it's right or wrong, that was the call of the person who made it and so liek i said, grow up and deal with it because that's how life is. i know it sounds contridicting as to what i said earlier about the ideals champ had for this clan and it does but at the saem tiem doesn't because it was the choice of that "factions ruler" the prime minister or chancelor.

the faction ruler has the right to do that because he's earned that right. oh, now im a heartless person for saying that, would i run over a puppy or leave a kitten behind if it was to save my life? yes because that's what more important. now since you dont my examples, here's an example, would i lose sleep knowing that i just rejected someone from the faction knowing he'd cause trouble for me and because we never got along before? no i wouldn't because itll be troublsome for me to deal with the person.

you seem liek you're in defence of people in this and not looking at both sides clearly to understand what im saying. if you say that you do see both sides, than you missed by a bit.

and sqrl, im too lazy to read the other pages =o

by **Disturbed** Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:24 pm

that is some idealistic thought coming from someone too lazy to read the rest of the pages. I really don't think I am missing anything because this decision will not be overturnable if any of the council provides a good, solid reason that makes sense for his decision. Normally ppl provide one anyways before making a decision. But if someone just says 'your'e demoted' or 'rejected for teh lulz' or something like that, there seems to be no apparent reason behind the whole idea. Yes maybe u have your own reasons but we here are not mind readers, so most ppl who are not your brothers in arms will assume you are either not serious, irresponsible or just high.

And I am more aware of champ's ideals than you presume. He envisioned a clan that would be free and have fun with factions, but one that followed a basic set of ground rules. On his return a while back, he was reasonably disappointed at the friction between factions. And he himself stated that they were there not for fighting and jealousy but for people to have fun. So ppl need to take this whole rivalry thing a little easy, we're not out there to get each other's throats.

America as a nation has much higher living standards (or used to) than most other countries. That is because they believe in freedom but at the same time used to have some good ground rules that were enforced properly. I can tell you right now that in other countries where there is complete freedom, but they are much the worse for it. Why? Because this very freedom causes lack of it, since this freedom allows those with more power to enforce their will as freely as they wish, and that often intrudes on the freedom of others.

by **Sqrl** Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:43 pm

and sqrl, im too lazy to read the other pages =o

its mistakes like that which cause loopholes.
We just need to keep aware of the situation which we are doing but, we cant slack off. All im saying i rest my case

by **Dray The Fingerless** Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:43 pm

no need to escalate this. its not that big.

by **Sqrl** Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:45 pm

nah we arent escalating dray tbh. this is just a simple debate it hasnt gone into flaming quite yet.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:46 pm

i meant adding dramatization to such a tiny thing.

by **Sqrl** Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:48 pm

=o

Oh.

Then

Lock

It.

?

by **Disturbed** Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:09 am

a;lright so despite support and against it has just been denied off the bat? Lovely...

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:15 pm

well im waiting on Sen Elections to finish before putting any other Proposals for voting.

by **Aardvark** Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:36 pm

I'll put it to vote myself if needed, it seems people want something in place but can't decide on what. Overall these seem to be the questions:

1. Who votes on it?
A. Senate
B. Factions
C. Clan as a whole
D. Council

2. What qualifies as unreasonable?
A. What a Senator believes
B. What a member believes
C. What guidelines are broken

3. Too many complaints?
A. Set a limit and enforce it on the Senator
B. Set a limit and enforce it on the complainer
C. Punish all complaints proved wrong

Solve these questions together, even if you make up your own answer to the questions, then get back to me and I'll write something up.

by **Disturbed** Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:40 pm

votes: Senate. Most impartial body. Not council. Factions seems to be a decent one too but then all who vote need to cast anonymously and give their reasoning privately.

Unreasonable: C. However, the member can challenge based on what he believes is wrong. Notice the additional amendment regarding the lack of any sound logic as reason for any act. Emotional decisions should be scrutinized (reminds me of Star Trek lol)

A. Enforce it on the complainer since he is obviously too whiny.

by Deadly Assassin Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:45 pm

by **Aureus** Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:01 pm

by **Thing** Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:14 pm

by **soran** Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:57 pm

thing944 wrote:A
C
B

by Reinforce Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:26 pm

by **Nomad** Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:03 pm

by **Chaos** Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:17 pm

by **Ptolemy** Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:03 pm

personally i do not think that the jedi need to meddle in the affairs of the sith and vice versa. That being said AND after reading the walls of text...

1A
2C
3AC

I also think the offended party needs to be the person to bring the complaint. If the offended party is not the one bringing up the offense it was not much of an offense

by **Aureus** Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:36 pm

If we punish every single complaint thought, this act will be useless cuz most will not even bother standing up to all the lil possies

EDIT: I don't mean pussy fyi

by **Disturbed** Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:09 pm

lol ofc lol this is not a rule sort of thing where anyone who does an objectionable act gets the hammer. Only if somebody is offended and unhappy with an action himself, he can complain (not publicly) and the senate will see. If its a bullshit accusation, then the guy who made it will get bullshit.

by **Aureus** Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:13 pm

Disturbed wrote:lol ofc lol this is not a rule sort of thing where anyone who does an objectionable act gets the hammer. Only if somebody is offended and unhappy with an action himself, he can complain (not publicly) and the senate will see. If its a bullshit accusation, then the guy who made it will get bullshit.

No im jus saying to the people who said C for #3.

Pretty ignorant in wanting to prevent such a rule to only help

(Not callin u ppl ignorant Razz

)

by **Disturbed** Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:22 pm

Vote counts so far:

1. 7 A 2 D
2. 7 C 2 B
3. 5B 3 C 1 A

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