Objectionable Decision Act Proposal - Suggestion

Dray The Fingerless wrote:the Charter clearly states the rules in wich all members must abide. Admins and power holding positions also have primary rules that they MUST abide by.

Mind if i ask if ur with or against this?

im irrelevant. thing is, i wont be editing the charter to put this in. the Charter already states rules that ALL members must follow.

adding this is like having a rule saying

"Be respectful and any abusive use of powers will be punished"

and then adding another one saying

"Any use of power by the leaders that prejudicates a member based solely on personal facts must be punished."

OK Xzavier. The reason why it wouldn't be wise to do this by faction Council is that MC and DC are appointed, not elected, so their views are likely to coincide with the Faction Leader. As for the Senate being partial, the Proposal I wrote is for any Councilor, not just Faction Leaders, and the Senate is the most impartial Leadership body you will find in the clan.

Oh, little fun facts for you guys too. First Senate had 4 Sith and 2 Jedi, the next election had 2 Jedi and 1 Sith, the next election had 1 Jedi and 1 Sith. That means, in the time before the new policy was enacted, the Senate had 6 Sith and 5 Jedi, completely balanced. After the policy was enacted, the results have equaled this: 6 Jedi, 2 Sith. So, it's not exactly like the Leadership skewed results to the Jedi, when it was solely Leadership, it evened out with a slight favor to Sith. When it went to the public is when this turned to favor Jedi. And in the current candidates running, wanna know how many are Sith? 0. And we had a fairly balanced poll return.

sheesh this clan has to many levels of different powers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i require simple and easy

Complete guide to JvS Leadership:

Admins:

Server Enforcer - These are server admins responsible for upholding rules on the servers and are appointed by the Alliance Council.

Server Regulator - These are Enforcers that have gained a lot of trust during their server admining and have been given the elevated power to ban.

Forum Enforcer - These are forum moderators responsible for upholding rules on the forums and are appointed by the Core Council(Chancellor, Prime Minister, Senate Representative).

Forum Regulator - This is a position occupied by only the Chancellor and Senate Representative and is responsible for determining punishment levels for rule breakers on the forums.


Faction Management:

Jedi/Sith Approval Committee - This is a faction position capable of approving on a faction level for Great Hall applicants and full approval for Jedi/Sith(respectively) factions. This position is appointed by the DL/GM for any Sith Lord/Jedi Knight or higher.

Dark/Masters Councilor - This is a faction position capable of approving a member like the J/SAC as well as being able to rank to Sith Lord and Jedi Knight respectively. This position is appointed by the DL/GM for any Sith Marauder or Prophet/Jedi Master or Combat Specialist and higher.


Voting:

Senator - This is a leading position capable of bringing up clan issues and voting on them and is an elected position.

Alliance Councilor - This is a leading position capable of running their factions and appointing member of the J/SAC and Dark/Master Council. They have added moderation and server administration powers as well and are responsible for voting on issues in Council. (This position is occupied by the entire Council, but mainly implies the Grand Master and Dark Lord).

Core Councilor - This is a leading position capable of running clan affairs as a whole, full forum moderation and administration, full server administration and Rcon, and full Website administration. They are responsible for voting in Council along with the Alliance Councilors. (This position is occupied by the Chancellor, Prime Minister, and Senate Representative only).



People can occupy multiple slots with the exception of Council and Senate in which only one member has the right to be both, the Senate Representative.

Contrary to what i said before hand, the Faction leaders do have a choice between whether or not to accept or reject a app to there respected factions.
The Charter does state what dray said, but there are loopholes in this charter i believe. You may not see it but others (who like to cause trouble) can see it. This also applies to the clan as a whole. We should look at the possible 'loopholes' that one can manipulate a certain rule or amendment for their personal gain.
I can also tell you that your going to disagree with me and say that the Charter is perfect and loophole free. But no Document no matter how full-proof it may seem is 'loop-hole' free. If i have to, i'll bring up the Amendments, the Bill of rights and what have you. But i'll just say that not all documents are full-proof.

That's why we have the Council. Council essentially acts as a Supreme Court and decide how it will be interpreted.

Yes the council, i ask you and dont take this as an insult but couldnt the Council be manipulated as well? All im saying is no clan document, organization, committee, bill, etc is full-proof and their are loopholes is all im really stating. Council wise, you say that the Council acts like a Supreme Court. But if i recall from my 9th Grade American Cultures Class is the Supreme Court through the years has ruled cases wrongly.

2. Is voted to be removed for misconduct by the Council and Senate. In times of extreme trouble the Dark Lord and Grand Master can be removed by a two-thirds vote by both the Senate, and the Council, and cannot vote in the precedings themselves.

and

Executive Decision Act

This is an emergency power to cover any situations that may arise due to a loophole in the JvS Charter. During the event of an uncovered scenario the Council will have the option to call an emergency vote to take into consideration every aspect of the scenario, including unique aspects, and cast a decision based on a majority vote of the Councilors. No returned result is to be taken as a precedence because any case needing this emergency vote will involve the unique circumstances as well as the general issue. This emergency vote is only to take place if the question is not covered in the Charter or previous Amendments.

Should the Senate feel the Council has overstepped their bounds in calling a vote they may call their own vote to countermand the result. If they receive the necessary two-thirds vote to countermand it then the Council and Senate will work to make an amendment to cover the area.

Yes, agree-able but it doesnt matter how full-proof the laws are, someone will find a way to manipulate laws and thats all im really stating. I didnt suggest that the Charter is wrong. Its just a common knowledge that all documents can be manipulative in some way. And we have never had to use that rule yet. Which is great. But shouldnt we like at least try to patch up the dykes before they burst? My suggestion is we just look at all the documents that JvS has (Charter, Sith and Jedi recruitment laws etc) To see if There ARE any loopholes or loose ends. which you'll probably say that you did look and that there arent any. But we should look closer into laws, documents, and such. But in a generalization I am just stating that not all documents and written laws arent manipulatable or loop-hole free. Just a suggestion Really. Thank You For Your Time.

The reason this is not going down a good path is becuz the DL and GM CAN deny candidates to their factions. ive not seen the DL or GM deny a single applicant into their faction without knowing the person. The DL and the GM do not have to give a reason to why they deny someone. Being the DL or the GM means they have a good judgement and are trustworthy in their decisions.

There's no way to account for all loopholes. You have to wait until someone tries to exploit it so you know what you're looking for. I've tried to do what you're saying, but it's simply not possible to account for them until someone tries to slip by, which is why we have the EDA.

I am just stating that not all documents and written laws arent manipulatable or loop-hole free.

And im confident in the clan's rules but this should just be taken into account is all no real debate.

Edit: If you want you can lock this?

actually no, the DL gains his position by fighting AND meeting certain leadership requirements. good judgement being one of them.

And usually the upper tier Sith ''indirectly'' vote on the DL anyways.

disruption of powers and clan affairs goes in record. once it passes a certain line, a consequence is issued.

I don't really see a problem with it. Ofc if it gets out of hand with going against judgement it can always be taken care of itself (the act).

It doesn't? People really need to learn how to group up together or group up others and become a force to be reckoned with. Rallying the people is always quite handy, this entire idea though is quite redundant. It's essentially already in-effect ''indirectly'', all this would do is clutter up the charter more and bring some more bureaucracy into the entire system.

i read the first two pages... ... ... ... ... grow up, that is all. kthxbai

the matter of time really doesn't apply to how good the amendment is. from what i was reading on the first 2 pages this came about because deadly rejected cog if i read correctly. regardless of what the DL does, it's his decision and because of the differences in factions, the DL can and should be fully allowed to base his decisions on emotion; maybe not in administering on the server, but definatly in who he/she wants in their faction.

as for other things, say for example bans from the server, that's why we have the ban appeal thread thingy is it not? you're doing the exact kind of thing that made me become fully active again and that's meddling with things that trully do not need to be meddled with because they worked perfectly fine before. if you want to fix the problem with being exiled because of personal reasons, then eliminate the exile group.

this amendmant from what i read is giving too much power to the senate. why must the jedi always whine and complain when the big bad sith do something bad... redundant, i know... -.- that's why i said grow up, if you want something like this, then have it applied to the jedi and not the sith.

now, im nto speaking for all the sith, i know they're some who are in favor of it and im mearly voicing my opinion against this. what's the point of the DL being the final word on something if a group of other people can go right ahead and repeal it? lets ask it this way, what's the point in the 2 factions if the oppossing faction can also have a say in what they do?

why do i reject this so much? because like i said earlier, it's interfearing with a system that always worked and if you're going to cry about it to the point where you need to connect the broke link between the factions than we might as well just mix the factions together and there, problem solved, the end, no more whinning aobut beign rejected because you cant be anymore... ruins the fun of havign this clan doesn't it?