Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."

Actually Albion, money is representative of NOTHING. And Oil is much much much much much much MORE influential on the value of money a country has, than gold does.

Actually today most influent have buissnes prosperity and situation on stock market . But gold is protection that money course wont fall under insane level.

LOL, no albion. there is not enough gold in the world to save even ONE country from a economic collapse. Gold simply would be a fall back coin if the world does collapse and still maintains a market system. Money, the stock market, they are all representative of NOTHING. actually no, they represent Debt.

LOL it wont protect from economic collapse. It's decreasing speed of changes and gives time to take up solutions/reforms. And its not only gold like i said 2 posts ago.

The problem is dray, there is not going to be a global economic collapse. The worst that is going to happen is the dollar is no longer going to be the reserve fund for the world. It will change to something else, just like what happened to the British sterling many decades ago. You are assuming a worst case scenario, which will not happen. Thus gold and silver are everything you will need, nothing more. Oil is a good investment too but its much easier to store a couple hundred pounds of Gold and Silver than it is a couple hundred barrels of oil.

Thus America will take it up the ass the worst, and anyone who sided with them in this whole matter. Countries like China and Russia will do fine. The US way of life though is coming to an end. Even if every single income in this country was taxed at 100%, we STILL could not maintain our lifestyles in the long run. We are basically doomed over here. And I think the collapse of the dollar as the reserve fund is coming sooner than later.

What you are arguing for is a fictional scenario. Not gonna happen. Thus my original advice, guns n gold stands true and firm.

I agree with Champ. China is prospering fast. They know how they are doing - for now they are using dumping and whole world becomes dependent from their cheap goods. They are using the simplest and most effective economic philosophy ever - import resources, export goods.

albions wrote:I agree with Champ. China is prospering fast. They know how they are doing - for now they are using dumping and whole world becomes dependent from their cheap goods. They are using the simplest and most effective economic philosophy ever - import resources, export goods.

And the best part is, now that they have used the US like a semen filled condom, they are flushing all the US dollars they have down the toilet like there is no tomorrow. After that big meeting they had with Russia, France and a few other major powers it seems the world is hell bent on inflating the dollar into nothingness and moving on to another reserve fund. In fact, I heard that they are trying to organize a central financial system for the world, with a reserve fund that is shared by many countries. Gone will be the days the US can just print away its debts with its mints since the dollar will no longer be the reserve fund of the world.

I don't think egotistical and uninformed Americans realize how close this country is to becoming a declining second rate country. When gas hits 7-8$ a gallon, a loaf of bread 5$ and milk 10$ a gallon and there wages do not increase, trust me it will be too late. Hell, it is already too late. INVEST IN GOLD, SILVER AND GUNS. GOLD AND SILVER FOR WHEN ITS OVER, AND GUNS FOR THE CHAOS IT WILL CAUSE. INVEST YOUR MONEY OUTSIDE OF THE GRASP OF THE US GOV, AND INVEST IN PRECIOUS METALS NOW!

China inflate their own money. Lesser value = better for industry ( not too low ofc ). They are tricky bastards.

Its not even there own money. They are not trading in dollars with Russia anymore, and more and more countries are seeing this as a good alternative. Eventually, sooner than later the dollar will no longer be used as a reserve fund (IE, the money everyone uses to trade with each other) and then the US will no longer be able to simply print money to pay for its debts. Right now the US can afford this lavish and ridiculous lifestyle only because of this simple anomaly in economics. Hell even in some parts of the US like in NYC stores are accepting foreign currency.

Right now we can notice little rising up in economy that is forced because of money that goverments pumped in industry . But i dont belive that will stay more than few year. Or we will have next big rise or we well fall in crisis again.

albions wrote:Right now we can notice little rising up in economy that is forced because of money that goverments pumped in industry . But i dont belive that will stay more than few year. Or we will have next big rise or we well fall in crisis again.

Exactly. It's actually following the eerie pattern of the crash before WW2. The sudden peak then huge crash is almost identical to whats occurring now. Its basically the calm before the storm...

Yeah but according to crash before WWII if we find new zones of industry ( in past that was planes / military , after WWII it was mostly computers and entertiment ) we can find a way out of comming collapse. It could be for example space exploring. Everything comes to technology.

Well that was a slightly different circumstance, since after that time is when the dollar became the worlds reserve fund. A lot of it had to do with the US investing billions in European rebuilding. This time around, the US will not have that luxury...

So if the US government itself manages to retain its power (likely, but you never know), it will take some time to recover. We certainly cannot maintain the military and spending we have prior to the collapse to come. Then the backlash of all the bad education system here, the lack of knowledge in the general population, and other things we have taken for granted will come back to haunt us.

The only reassuring factor is US citizens are very proud. That is a mixed blessing, pride can exert confidence. Confidence helps in all matters. The downside is it can lead to arrogance, as is the mentality now. After such a tragic event as is to come, there will be no room for arrogance, and thus the hope remains of a strong comeback for the US (or whatever the country calls itself then if its still even united).

True. But i wasnt talking only about US. Whole world economy is in danger. And dollar right now is still strong ( but quickly falling ). Now its best (and only rational ) time for taking up reforms and finding new place for funds. It will get worse and worse in time. Circumsatances maybe was diffrent then but its not like we dont have a places in world where we couldnt invest money . For example look at Africa - im not talking only about the most poor contries there. Right now we can see what is happening in Egypt, Oman, Libia , Ethiopia etc. After democratic revolutions there will be needed funds and invest there may be best solution.

albions wrote:True. But i wasnt talking only about US. Whole world economy is in danger. And dollar right now is still strong ( but quickly falling ). Now its best (and only rational ) time for taking up reforms and finding new place for funds. It will get worse and worse in time. Circumsatances maybe was diffrent then but its not like we dont have a places in world where we couldnt invest money . For example look at Africa - im not talking only about the most poor contries there. Right now we can see what is happening in Egypt, Oman, Libia , Ethiopia etc. After democratic revolutions there will be needed funds and invest there may be best solution.

I am not an economist or have a really deep understanding of economics but I fail to see how the US can pull itself out of the downward spiral it is now in. Especially with so many countries moving to get rid of the dollar itself for trading.

Me as well but im trying to understand basic mechanisms of economy. I just cant agree with what is happening so easly And still if US have troubles whole Europe feels it.

Btw - this thread met the requirements of rancor pit right now

Indeed. should split it.

Also Champ, Worst case scenario? A scenario where we cease to use a market for getting basic resources? No, thats the best case scenario. Hey why dont we just send food to Africa and aid and shit? WELL CAUSE THAT WOULD BE DANGEROUS FOR OUR ECONOMY, WE COULD WASTE TOO MUCH MONEY ON IT AND GET IN THE SHITTER. well what if we didnt have this money thingy? OH....WELL....THEN I GUESS WE COULD GO FULLY HELP THEM. That is not a worst case scenario. And that is not more complicated than i make it be. That is the sole reason goods and resources are not distributed in balance right now.

Albion, i dont think you comprehend the parameters im speaking. Im not speaking INSIDE economical parameters, im speaking ABOUT the economy. ABOUT how it works. not whats happening in it. To put it simple, you print money to cover debt, but by printing money, you are creating debt. As of right now, all the money in the world would only pay 2 3rds of the debt we have. And this is why inflation happens. cause we print more money to pay more debt, that was created from printing more money. IT IS A VICIOUS CYCLE. Further more, to make it worse, the economy right now is based on Oil, thats world wide, not US only. Chinas economy will crash if we run out of oil right now too. Any economist will tell you that. So, to add insult to injury, the dwindling numbers of oil create more virtual debt, like promising the world we will pay you this in oil, wich we dont have. Thats right, the oil that is supposed to come to pay part of the debt, does not exist. Another one, stock markets are filled with continuous cycles of virtual money machines. this guy sells sth to this guy for a price, wich then resells to the other guy for a higher price. by doing this, they are gaining revenue from certain taxes. basically, making debt and value out of thin air. Thats right, they create value that has no real world basis. This system needs a complete and utter reset, or it needs to be substituted, because it is broken.

I would split it, but its your thread Champ, so....you rename it and all.

Gold doesn't dwindle. Never will either. You see, even in your worst case scenario, I would be living in stockpile town, and you and Ptolemy would come up to approach me with my small militia of men. You would ask for goods, I would ask for gold. You would leave empty handed. Ptolemy would come up, give me some gold, I would give him some food and ammo. He also found some nice scrap metal. I return some gold and take that off his hands.

I agree with you that communism would be the ideal form of government for the world over. But thats the problem, communism only works if the government is in control of all the resources, which I do not see happening. Some economies are preparing for what is to come, and they will thrive and survive it. No dreaming on your part will change that. Thus the wise and prudent thing to do is not dream, but prepare ourselves. Guns and gold (technically, silver will give a better return right now statistically).

Communism? I dont support communism. Has nth to do with government. im speaking resources and needs. We have basic needs that all humans should have. i am simply saying that distributing them as equally as possible is ideal for advancing society.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:Communism? I dont support communism. Has nth to do with government. im speaking resources and needs. We have basic needs that all humans should have. i am simply saying that distributing them as equally as possible is ideal for advancing society.

Sounds like pure communism to me. What you are suggesting has already been layed out as a form of government, though you are putting it in its most basic terms. And I DO support communism. In its purest form it would be the ideal government for our species.

Champion wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:Communism? I dont support communism. Has nth to do with government. im speaking resources and needs. We have basic needs that all humans should have. i am simply saying that distributing them as equally as possible is ideal for advancing society.

Sounds like pure communism to me. What you are suggesting has already been layed out as a form of government, though you are putting it in its most basic terms. And I DO support communism. In its purest form it would be the ideal government for our species.

I would never trust humans for this task. Thats why we have computers. And yes, communism does state that humans should all have equal yadda yadda yadda, but communism says a lot more, particularly Marx. He criticized what is wrong with our system, but the way on how he wanted to fix it is just wrong. Communism is wrong. For example, it exempts private property, wich is bullshit. Communism looks to eliminate all individuality, wich is bullshit. Communism is IMPOSSIBLE to put into practice, because it does not accept human behavour. Politics ALWAYS ignore human factor and human behaviour. ALWAYS. I simply want a system where individual health, mental and physical, as well as happiness, is the number one factor. All systems weh ave today propagand behind that, but they never really act on it as a priority. How hard would it be for a computer to say, hmmm Africa is fucked up, and All these countries have redundant resources, ill just shift these over to africa since they arent being used. Hmmm, this guy bought 1 million oreo boxes, no way he needs them all, ill just shift half of these and distribute in school.(And yes, i do believe you dont have the right to own half the worlds resources.)

Well that is marxist communism, there is always room for improvement. I would prefer a more scientific progressive version. There is still room in community for culture and arts and expression of individualism and still implement a communistic view on resources and socialism.

Why label sth that is an ECONOMY system as apolitical system? I am not advocating leaders or what ideals a society should have, only the resources it has the right to have. Individualism must be encouraged, but most importantly, reasoning and rationality. Greed comes very often from a lack of self thinking. Greed comes because society is telling you right now "the more you have, the better". Because we are under the idea that we need to work and get more n more n more, we become greedy. If what we need to survive and be happy is already granted, we could do much more. If wanting more isnt JAMMED into our brains, we wont want more. We can focus on what each of us loves.

Btw, not marxism or communism. those involve ideologies and processes to meddle with people. i am simply saying to assess what each person needs, and give it to them, since it is a human right and a human duty.

But for the sake of it, lets say it is a socialist or communist trait, even thou i hate both of them as ideals.