Israel's right to be... a bitch?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/world/middleeast/01flotilla.html?th&emc=th



Oh I see, so they thought that the former American ambassador going there was an extremist! OF COURSE!


If this had been done in, say Somalia, in international waters, which it was, it would be called PIRATREY!!

Is there any reason to board a ship that is getting past the blockade on the Gaza strip because the humanitarians don't want to allow Israel, which has done practically NOTHING to help the Palestinians, to take their 10,000 pounds of aid?

I'm GLAD these commandoes were bashed with clubs and knives! WTF were they thinking! ISRAEL HAS BECOME A LITTLE BITCH THAT HIDES BEHIND MOMMY AND DADDY WHENEVER IT DOES SOMETHING WRONG!!

Why do they have international impunity? So stupid, they are starting to think that they can do whatever they want to do, and now, I'm beginning to think more and more that Israel shouldn't be Israel, it should just be a secular state of Muslims and Jews.

Now, if only the labor party was in power this MIGHT not have happened, as evidenced by the article. What is it with conservative groups these days and muscle?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Israel_Navy_warns_flotilla_31-May-2010.htm

video thingy^

How so?

Ah ignorance abounds. I didn't reply to this before because I was honestly trying to figure out why you think Israel was in the wrong. You see, Isreal is blockading the Gaza Strip, this means no unauthorized traffic in or out, no exceptions, because the situation in the Gaza Strip is already extremely volatile, they understandably want to control what goes in and out. So they ask this flotilla to yield to a search, a reasonable request. The flotilla refuses, then rushes the blockade and Israel responds.

If you were a military commander and a ship said: "Hey can we get past?" You reply, "We'll let's search your ship first." Then the ship promptly rushes your blockade without responding would you assume: A. The ship is harmless.; or B. The ship is hiding something and running for it?

Israel had every right to do as they did, the blockade was legal, and theirs was a response to action, not an attack or raid on the flotilla.

^


Althou Israel IS becoming a stupid bitch, this action isnt unreasonable.

I thought it was, the Israelies aren't helping the Gazans enough, they basically send the supplies through a screening, and even then, they don't all get there.

It was unreasonable, though the situation is volatile, think about it, both people claim this as their homeland, and the Israelis keep on building, even though they really should halt for a bit.

Besides, the U.S ambassador on that ship said that they felt that the Isrealis would take A. too long to get the supplies there, and B. censor the supplies so that only a few could get through. They Israelis have done enough to the poor people of the Gazan Strip, and now they hardly help them?

Think about it you two, if you were dying over there, wouldn't you like quick and full access to supplies?

Of course you would, that should be the end of the discussion.

GG gentlemen.

I guess America should open the borders for mexican people as well, just let them flow in. Thing is Nihil, Gaza, given the chance, will fight back. Its always the same. Even if they are screening the supplies, it has to be done, otherwise any guns, weapons, informations, intel, even people, can go into Gaza unchecked. No where in the world you see that, its not because Gaza is in peril that the Israelis are gonna drop basic security measures. Law is the law, and if you have to be screened and checked, you do it. If you have nothing to fear or hide, you do it.

Time and again the Palestinians have been offered deals for peace with Israel giving up more and more land and consistently the Palestinians refuse and start attacking civilians. Then Israel defends itself and everyone get up in arms about the poor Palestinians.

They are cowards who hide behind women and children, fire rockets from UN compounds and target innocent civilians. The Palestinians need to fix that but have been so indoctrinated to hate Jews and anyone that sides with them that it is unlikely that will ever happen. when they start loving thier kids more than they hate the rest of us there could be peace, but the Palestinian leadership does not want that.

One of the GOALS of HAMAS, the people in power in Palestine, is to wipe Israel off the map. how do you make peace with someone that wants to kill you because of your race?

I think niether the Palestinians nor Israel deserve their own country. The Israelites for not dealing with a rebellious conquered people properly. and the Palestinians for not even willing to compromise a bit when it comes to division of land. They want it all or nothing it seems, and Israel is obviously not going to give them all it has.

I dunno why America fixed that war, isntead of making a new one in Iraq

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/world/middleeast/03policy.html?th&emc=th


You guys are ignoring the fact, again, that this was in international waters, this is tantamount to piracy.

Ptolemy, u have ur facts mixed up I think, the palestinians are offering talks if Israel stalls building, which it refuses to do.

And you all seem to make the mistake of generalizing the people of the Gazan strip as enemies of Israel, like that they all want to destroy Israel, when, indeed, most of them want nothing more than to live, one doesn't choose where they are born.

Dray u are right, the law is the law, what Israel did was illegal, in international waters, it doesn't have to right to stop any ship that comes over.

Again, the Israelis are witholding supplies from the Palestinians, this is creating a humanitarian disaster, but, what does the state care? They would have taken the supplies on the boat and screened them, and then, after all that, not give them all to the Palestinians, they are just being jerks.

GG gentlemen.

Israel's blockade was legal, and the fact that a ship tried to run it is an act of aggression. The fault is with the flotilla you cannot get past this, the act of running the blockade is an act of aggression.

In international waters is illegal, you can't get over that fact Aard, that is illegal, you can't attack a ship in international waters.

Besides, humanitarian services can't get in there and read the article, learn what other human rights are being violated

Do you support that? If you do, then you can continue to support Israel blockading everything that goes in there, if you don't, welcome to side of humanitarians and relief workers.

Nihil wrote:In international waters is illegal, you can't get over that fact Aard, that is illegal, you can't attack a ship in international waters.

Besides, humanitarian services can't get in there and read the article, learn what other human rights are being violated

Do you support that? If you do, then you can continue to support Israel blockading everything that goes in there, if you don't, welcome to side of humanitarians and relief workers.

See thats typical. You agree with me or you are a racist bigot...

get a new play book

Jews aren\'t a race, get a fact book, we went over this a long time ago, I thought they were, I guess I was wrong, but now, you too are wrong.

also, I didn\'t condemn wishing to continue the blockade, I mean, for the love of all that is good, learn to read it all, I\'m really getting tired of it

They didnt attack a ship. An airport is international ground Nihil, yet you have to go thru inspection to walk into the country the airport is situated in. Is it illegal to inspect you before entrance into a country? No. If you dont want to be inspected, you are denied entrance in the Country.

Nihil wrote:Jews aren\'t a race, get a fact book, we went over this a long time ago, I thought they were, I guess I was wrong, but now, you too are wrong.

also, I didn\'t condemn wishing to continue the blockade, I mean, for the love of all that is good, learn to read it all, I\'m really getting tired of it

Again if you do not agree mith me you are a racist, bigot, homophobe and any of another hundred names i will call you to force you into my way of thinking...

GET A NEW PLAY BOOK...

this one is wearing thin.

Is there a humanitarian crisis in an airport Dray? I think not. Again, they would have TAKEN their aid, and this ship was from an ALLY, Turkey. The Israelies would have taken the goods and not even allowed all of them into Gaza, how is that fair and makes sense?

This is piracy, this was established after WWI, look it up, international waters are open and free during war and such.

Ptol,

learn to read gosh darnit, i didn't condemn his opinion, I said, if he wants to, he can come to the side of the humaniatrian workers, because, that is the side that they are, for the most part, on.

Nihil wrote:Is there a humanitarian crisis in an airport Dray? I think not. Again, they would have TAKEN their aid, and this ship was from an ALLY, Turkey. The Israelies would have taken the goods and not even allowed all of them into Gaza, how is that fair and makes sense?

This is piracy, this was established after WWI, look it up, international waters are open and free during war and such.

Ptol,

learn to read gosh darnit, i didn't condemn his opinion, I said, if he wants to, he can come to the side of the humaniatrian workers, because, that is the side that they are, for the most part, on.

Tread carefully Nihil.. I will infract you if you continue to flame bait.

I'm sorry, I don't know how else to put it, especially after he didn't read it a second time

Attack the argument not the person.

oik i read it, they had weapons on board the flotilla. SOOOO, wtf nihil?

Sounds like a justified raid to me.

Nihil wrote:In international waters is illegal, you can't get over that fact Aard, that is illegal, you can't attack a ship in international waters.

Besides, humanitarian services can't get in there and read the article, learn what other human rights are being violated

Do you support that? If you do, then you can continue to support Israel blockading everything that goes in there, if you don't, welcome to side of humanitarians and relief workers.

With this statement you inferred that if you support Israel then you support lawlessness and the killing, by starvation and denial of services, the killing of innocent people. and if you came down on the side of aid workers and 'humanitarians' that you would condemn such actions.

Thus my statement, side with me or you are a racist bigot homophobe or any one of a hundred other names i can call you to force your compliance. it is straight out Alensky's book rules for radicals. demonize someone so they will have no choice but agree with you. I reject that notion out of hand.

Harrison, 32, from Islington, north London, also witnessed the Mavi Marmara being stormed from above by helicopter and said the Israelis started firing before their troops touched down on the boat.

"I have seen some selective footage that the Israelis have chosen to put out suggesting that we responded with violence," she said. "You must remember that these are unarmed civilians on their own boat in the middle of the Mediterranean. People picked up what they could to defend themselves against armed, masked commandos who were shooting."

The violence was "initiated by the Israelis on a massive scale," she said, adding she was pleased her colleagues on the Rachel Corrie, an Irish vessel, were continuing to Gaza this weekend.

"I am thrilled they are going," she said. "They know exactly what risks they face. They are doing what our government's haven't and I thank them."

Both Harrison and Patel criticised the British authorities for failing to provide sufficient consular assistance while the activists were detained in an Israeli prison in Beersheva.

Patel said he was not visited by anyone from the British mission and Harrison said the consul told her that Israeli officials had prevented him visiting captured Britons.

"I did see the British consul," Harrison said. "He told me that he had sitting outside the prison all day ... asking for access and not been given it. I see that as an insult from Israel to the British, that they were denying the British consul the right that citizens have. I also see it as a sign that the British don't have the strength to stand up to Israel."

Foreign Secretary William Hague confirmed that a total of 34 of the activists on the aid flotilla were British, with all but two of them having been sent to Turkey by the Israeli authorities.

In Gaza City, the de facto Hamas prime minister, Ismail Haniyeh, told crowds of worshippers at Friday prayers that Israel's blockade was in its final stages.

"Now not only Gazans speak of the blockade, but also the [UN] security council and the international community. Everyone is demanding the siege be lifted."





One of the strongest condemnations of Israel's actions came from the Swedish novelist Henning Mankell who had been aboard the Swedish aid ship Sofia. Mankell, the author of the Wallander series called for global sanctions against Israel to put pressure on it to lift the blockade of Gaza. "I think we should use the experience of South Africa, where we know that the sanctions had a great impact. It took time, but they had an impact," Mankell said. He also denied there had been any weapons aboard the aid ships. "I can promise there was not a single weapon aboard the ships," he told a reporter who was returning to Sweden with him after the writer had been deported by Israel.


At a press conference in Nazareth, she said: "A clear message was being sent to us, for us to know that our lives were in danger. We were not interested in a confrontation. What we saw was five bodies. There were only civilians and there were no weapons … Israel spoke of a provocation, but there was no provocation."


I didn't see it in that article or any others I could find, so you will have to point it out to me.


Ptolemy, if you know there are human rights being violated, how could you possibly support that anyways? If people are humanitarians, yes, they would not like how Israel denies basic human dignities and rights to these people. If you don't agree with providing humanitarian services, well, then it is OBVIOUS that you are not a humanitarian, IT IS A FACT. Is it truly possible to condone this behavior? How could anyone? again, A FACT. BUT I DID NOT CALL HIM A NAME OR SUCH, JUST THAT HE CONDONES THAT BEHAVIOR, I SIMPLY POINTED THAT OUT, I DID NOT CALL NAMES LIKE YOU ARE DOING. It is just a fact, get over it.