Re: Draw Mohammed Day Protests

by **Disturbed** Sun May 23, 2010 8:20 pm

like I said, you can draw him if you want to so badly, but a public debacle of the sort is rather preposterous

by **Aureus** Sun May 23, 2010 11:31 pm

Lol still Freedom of speech arguement...

u do realize that one of the rights to religious tolerance and respect overrides that right?

Mine as well jus do wat dist says and start quoting myself from page 2

by Nihil Sun May 23, 2010 11:56 pm

actually, the freedom of speech gives people the right to almost say anything they want, be it about religious intolerance and such.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon May 24, 2010 1:45 am

i like how you think yourself or your species as such perfect beings that your worthy of total freedom of speech.

by **Disturbed** Mon May 24, 2010 2:14 am

Dray The Fingerless wrote:i like how you think yourself or your species as such perfect beings that your worthy of total freedom of speech.

by Nihil Mon May 24, 2010 2:48 am

No no!

Freedom of speech isn't that, its the opposite, its acknowledging that we are imperfect and that people are entitled to their own ideas and such, it acknowledges, like I said before, that times and cultures change, and what may be the golden rule today may be the blasphemy of the next.

by **Ptolemy** Mon May 24, 2010 4:14 pm

Disturbed wrote:
Dray The Fingerless wrote:i like how you think yourself or your species as such perfect beings that your worthy of total freedom of speech.

Who decides who gets to say what? Who has the right to restrict speech?

I do believe it is disrespectful to depict ones deity in a negative light. The Zombie Jesus Pic of Nihils is Way over the top and really pisses me off.

That being said i do not have the right to NOT be offended. if i do not like what is on TV i do not watch. Radio? i change the station. i have the right to vote with my money and my feet. i will not support something that i disagree with or that i find ethically or morally repugnant. Those standards are different for me than they are for you.

Deciding who can say what... sounds alot like the old Soviet Union, Cuba or Present day middle east. No one has the right to tell me what i can and cannot say. next would be someone telling me what i can and cannot think... OH thats right they are doing that already with political correctness and hate crime legislation...

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon May 24, 2010 6:09 pm

Ptolemy wrote:
Disturbed wrote:
Dray The Fingerless wrote:i like how you think yourself or your species as such perfect beings that your worthy of total freedom of speech.

Who decides who gets to say what? Who has the right to restrict speech?

I do believe it is disrespectful to depict ones deity in a negative light. The Zombie Jesus Pic of Nihils is Way over the top and really pisses me off.

That being said i do not have the right to NOT be offended. if i do not like what is on TV i do not watch. Radio? i change the station. i have the right to vote with my money and my feet. i will not support something that i disagree with or that i find ethically or morally repugnant. Those standards are different for me than they are for you.

Deciding who can say what... sounds alot like the old Soviet Union, Cuba or Present day middle east. No one has the right to tell me what i can and cannot say. next would be someone telling me what i can and cannot think... OH thats right they are doing that already with political correctness and hate crime legislation...

again, who says we are worthy of having the right to do and say whatever we want, wherever we want, whenever we want? i find humanity bareable AT BEST as a species, and i think that our ideologies are highly undermined by our past and present, and most certainly, future actions. i think its proven by now, we are not trustworthy. i will not silence anyone, because i am not above any other human, im part of the lot and guilty as anyone else, i just think its sad that as the peak of evolution, intelligence and existence, we cant handle simple things such as emotions, thoughts, freedoms and power. we simply cant. althou its a step towards a better place. we are not the ideal yet, but we are walking towards it. very slowly...

by **Ptolemy** Mon May 24, 2010 6:49 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
Ptolemy wrote:
Disturbed wrote:
Dray The Fingerless wrote:i like how you think yourself or your species as such perfect beings that your worthy of total freedom of speech.

Who decides who gets to say what? Who has the right to restrict speech?
I do believe it is disrespectful to depict ones deity in a negative light. The Zombie Jesus Pic of Nihils is Way over the top and really pisses me off.
That being said i do not have the right to NOT be offended. if i do not like what is on TV i do not watch. Radio? i change the station. i have the right to vote with my money and my feet. i will not support something that i disagree with or that i find ethically or morally repugnant. Those standards are different for me than they are for you.
Deciding who can say what... sounds alot like the old Soviet Union, Cuba or Present day middle east. No one has the right to tell me what i can and cannot say. next would be someone telling me what i can and cannot think... OH thats right they are doing that already with political correctness and hate crime legislation...

again, who says we are worthy of having the right to do and say whatever we want, wherever we want, whenever we want? i find humanity bareable AT BEST as a species, and i think that our ideologies are highly undermined by our past and present, and most certainly, future actions. i think its proven by now, we are not trustworthy. i will not silence anyone, because i am not above any other human, im part of the lot and guilty as anyone else, i just think its sad that as the peak of evolution, intelligence and existence, we cant handle simple things such as emotions, thoughts, freedoms and power. we simply cant. althou its a step towards a better place. we are not the ideal yet, but we are walking towards it. very slowly...

Talking about free speech. Actions are different. i can force actions on you. I cannot force my speech on you with out forcing an action on you like tying you up and forcing you to listen but who says we are not worthy of free speech? WHO MAKES THAT DETERMINATION? that is the question i am posing. If i cannot trust you to say the right thing all the time does that mean you are not worthy? who am i to determine what you say is not right? who are you to determine what i say is not right? Whose job would that be?

I am not shouting the caps are just for emphasis... Smile

Wait... *looks arround

I am in the Rancor pit... NOOOEEESSS

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon May 24, 2010 7:33 pm

as i said, i dont think any human has that capability to determine what and who cna do what, but because we are the top of the game, there is nothing to control us, hence why this is sad. and speech can have more power than any action....

by Nihil Mon May 24, 2010 7:52 pm

I have to say this to this freedom of speech thing though, you posted that no one should be able to control your actions, well, the thing about that is, murder is illegal, and it makes sense to everyone here, so when it comes to some moral issues and such, we should have these laws. I mean, the pen is more powerful than the sword, a caustic statement can embroil violence, those kinds of things should be limited by the government for the welfare of all the people, but this isn't one of those, they are just supporting something, using a current media event.

Why should I have to not eat ham if the Koran forbids that Muslims do it, why should I have to not draw Mohammed if the Koran forbids it? This falls completely under freedom of religion too.

Don't Oppress me Dawg! Razz

by **Thing** Mon May 24, 2010 7:54 pm

If anything, you're oppressing Muslims.

by Nihil Mon May 24, 2010 8:00 pm

If anything, Muslims are not being oppressed, this shit happens to christians all the time too. Just check out any Atheist's blog.

This is a support rally and an exsercise of freedom of speech.

by **dandaman7** Mon May 24, 2010 8:03 pm

thing944 wrote:If anything, you're oppressing Muslims.

Correct.
Also, very few are saying that you aren't allowed to do it. But its still a douchebag move to do it. They asked others not to do it, peacefully, to have respect for their religion, then others don't listen, they get offended. Simple.
Like I said before, to have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it. I didn't really understand your Aztec's and Chinese reference. Just because it is offensive now and might not be later, still doesn't make it morally ok.
I'll say it again to emphasize it, doing it, IS JUST A DOUCHEBAG MOVE.

by Nihil Mon May 24, 2010 8:10 pm

Actually no one asked them NOT to, I'm going to ask you not to go to school tomorrow because it is holiday x and if you do I will be greatly offended?

You guys keep saying it like these people actually walk around and say to everyone DO NOT DRAW THE PROPHET MOHAMMED! RAAARGH! they don't do that! If you had respect for people's religion, then you wouldn't try to convert them, because then you would be implying that their religion is false, so, I'm going to say, dan, that you are a christian, Jesus preaches to go around and convert everyone, then, how is that respecting their religion?

by **dandaman7** Mon May 24, 2010 8:36 pm

False. People have been asking for long to not draw and depict the prophet Mohammed. Muslims have made it clear that they do not like when others depict Mohammed. They DO do that. South Park cannot lie and say that they were not aware, because something similar has happened before. Jesus, theologically, knew that He was the Son Of God and wanted to give everyone a chance to go to Heaven. Now, if you say Christians preaching the Gospel to people of a different faith, I still don't see the problem, especially if they actually believe that they are helping. However, if these people of different faith tell them to go away and stop trying to convert them, it is wrong if they continue to attempt convert them. Not to mention that Jesus taught that if they reject the faith after trying to preach to them, then leave them.

by Nihil Mon May 24, 2010 8:54 pm

Orly? Then how come people are now just learning about this now, with this protest and everyone draw mohammed day? I just learned about his rule with this protest and, as I'm sure, comon' people, that most of you did, with the advent of everyone draw mohammed day and this protest.

When Christians go to help people in Africa, what do you think another purpose is? To convert them, and guess what, who wants to stop the people who are helping them! Its basically a form of imperialism.

How can it rationally offend anyone if they see a picture of the prophet which they didn't draw, when it says in their book that THEY CANT DRAW MOHAMMED NOT US, so, obviously, as Cenk pointed out in the video, it doesn't make sense, they are just looking for a reason to bet angry. Lemme tell you, again, that if I ask you not to go to school tommorrow due to holiday x, and if you go, that it greatly offends me, will you still go? Yes, and now I can say that it was a douchebag move, congratulations, religion has just trumped reason? no, thats wrong, that is repression.

by **Disturbed** Mon May 24, 2010 9:15 pm

tbh, idk if south park drew them because according tp the religion, muslims should not be watching southpark anyways. And noone is forcing them. But this Draw Muhammad (PBUH) day is public and there are loads of stupid videos on the front page of youtube and public photos on fbk from ppl who joined the group (long since booted )...but this is rather in your face..the good thing about it is that we get to see the true colors of these people who pretend to be tolerant and peace loving.

What is wrong with preaching what one believes is the truth? As long as no one is forced into it I don't see the problem.

by **dandaman7** Mon May 24, 2010 9:30 pm

Why have people never heard of it? Not sure. South Park had a few episodes about it, Cartoon Wars was completely about it, and so was the episode Super Best Friends where they show Mohammed. However, when these episodes were shown, not too many people complained and most Muslims allowed them to do it without complaining or threatening. But when South Park took advantage of it and had the nerve to insult Mohammed. Perhaps you don't understand, but it really is different for Islam. South Park has shown Jesus before in a mocking sort of way, but most Christians don't complain, it is not taught to not depict Jesus at all. South Park creators knew it offended people and did it anyway.

When Christians go to help people in Africa, their purpose is to, guess what. HELP PEOPLE. When I go to a homeless shelter to serve food to the homeless, it is not to convert, it is to serve food and bring happiness to them.
Not easy to say that something is not offensive just because it is not offensive to you. Their 'book, the Quran does not teach 'THEY CANT DRAW MOHAMMED NOT US'. It makes complete sense to be offended. Why would they want to get angry, it's irrational to view things in a way like that, they are bored so they try to find something to be angry about?
If you asked me not to go to school tommorow due to holiday x, I would be curious if it is because of your religion, something that you revolve your life around. If it was, I would see if there are other people that feel that way as well. If so, I would likely not go to school tomorrow. If it is just you, only you who would be offended if I went to school tomorrow, then I might go, I am not in that situation so it is hard say what I would do. It has nothing to do with 'religion trumping reason', and I am not sure why you said that.
I agree that it is interesting that so many people claim to be so tolerant, then participate in things like these.

by Nihil Mon May 24, 2010 9:54 pm

Is it not also taught that people shouldn't insult jesus, therefore, by the same logic, Christians should all jump out of their skins and scream.

Also, tbh, I don't like the draw mohammed day thing either, its deliberately used to incite rage in the Muslim American Community, but, also, the context that these people are using it in, to support free speech without intimidation, i approve of, but not the concept of inciting rage.

Dan, their book, if you watched the video, does say that, and this comes from the guy in the video, someone who was a Muslim and read the Koran. And what you just said, that you don't know if you would go to school, is completely ridiculous, we both know that you wouldn't, because the foremost thing on the list in a secular society is to get an education, skipping a day that is not given, because a majority of americans aren't of the religion of holiday x. Basically, you have no idea how ridiculous that just sounded, you just, and i stress the quotes, "agreed" to do something completely irrational.

by **dandaman7** Mon May 24, 2010 10:07 pm

Jesus taught to not force a religion upon them, and the Unforgivable sin, if you look at it, is partly insulting Jesus.
There are several other ways to use freedom of speech to talk about how they do not like the censorship.
Quran says nothing about not depicting images of Mohammed, but Muslims have followed it by tradition mainly the Sunni's. Doesn't matter if it is in the Quran or not, it offends a large sum of people. If me going to school actually offended a large sum of people, then yes, however silly it sounds, I might consider not going to school for a day.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon May 24, 2010 10:18 pm

dandaman7 wrote:Jesus taught to not force a religion upon them, and the Unforgivable sin, if you look at it, is partly insulting Jesus.
There are several other ways to use freedom of speech to talk about how they do not like the censorship.
Quran says nothing about not depicting images of Mohammed, but Muslims have followed it by tradition mainly the Sunni's. Doesn't matter if it is in the Quran or not, it offends a large sum of people. If me going to school actually offended a large sum of people, then yes, however silly it sounds, I might consider not going to school for a day.

i wouldnt consider that a reasonable thing to do. there are certain things that are priority. if you have school, you go to school. that is key point in life, and while religion can be a cure of the 'soul', you sure as hell need school for maintaining your body and mind, wich unlike the soul, are a certainty in this world. so school prioritizes over religion, and it is necessary for you to go to school. i am VERY against religious holidays, EXCEPT the december holidays because they have become a social and functional holidays, since they serve as a well put pause in fiscal, educational and working years, as well as being a great bonding and commercial moment in the world. they have become less religious, and more human AND logical holidays.

HOWEVER, this expressing of freedom of speech was NOT necessary, quite the contrary, it served no purpose at all. there are a infinite amount of ways to express and protest FOR freedom of speech, most of them capable of being non insulting to a particular group of people.

by Nihil Mon May 24, 2010 10:30 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
dandaman7 wrote:Jesus taught to not force a religion upon them, and the Unforgivable sin, if you look at it, is partly insulting Jesus.
There are several other ways to use freedom of speech to talk about how they do not like the censorship.
Quran says nothing about not depicting images of Mohammed, but Muslims have followed it by tradition mainly the Sunni's. Doesn't matter if it is in the Quran or not, it offends a large sum of people. If me going to school actually offended a large sum of people, then yes, however silly it sounds, I might consider not going to school for a day.

i wouldnt consider that a reasonable thing to do. there are certain things that are priority. if you have school, you go to school. that is key point in life, and while religion can be a cure of the 'soul', you sure as hell need school for maintaining your body and mind, wich unlike the soul, are a certainty in this world. so school prioritizes over religion, and it is necessary for you to go to school. i am VERY against religious holidays, EXCEPT the december holidays because they have become a social and functional holidays, since they serve as a well put pause in fiscal, educational and working years, as well as being a great bonding and commercial moment in the world. they have become less religious, and more human AND logical holidays.

HOWEVER, this expressing of freedom of speech was NOT necessary, quite the contrary, it served no purpose at all. there are a infinite amount of ways to express and protest FOR freedom of speech, most of them capable of being non insulting to a particular group of people.

I was with you the whole way Dray....

Until that last part Razz

I thought that it drew on a good source of public outrage, regarding the Muslim extremist group threatening the creators of South Park, to support the freedom of speech without intimidation.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon May 24, 2010 11:34 pm

here's what you DONT get Nihil. they didnt threaten South Park until AFTER they did it. Eveyone was fine and dandee, and no one complained of freedom of speech in america or in this forum, everyone had that right as it was being used correctly. Until they decided to tease Muslims. I dont approve of the death threats, but in this world, what goes around comes around.

by Nihil Tue May 25, 2010 1:12 am

They didn't tease Muslims, they made fun of Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, they made fun of every religion. I don't understand it needs to be like this Dray

Draw Mohammed Day Protests - Page 4 Muslim

Draw Mohammed Day Protests - Page 4 Muslim

What say thee?

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