SW vs LOTR

Dray The Fingerless wrote:Ara, i CAN compare both visually, how the camera angles are done, how well the special effects are, how well focused the scenes are made, how well detailed a scene is. YOUR argument is stupid. i cant compare them becuz the visual effects are doing different things? no, thats wrong.

i cna see when one visual effect is done better then another. LOTR and the prequels are on par on that point.

i say its the icon, becuz honestly, if you come to a person and say.
"Name me some movies"

90% the time amongst the first names, Star Wars is gonna pop up.

I am not saying you can't compare them because they do different things I am saying the setting is completely different. You're not going to have graphics in LotR like there is in Star Wars because the setting is completely different. Futuristic vs past. You can't compare that. The camera angles I can see but the visual effects have little to do with camera angle and more to do with the editing involved in what the camera is capturing. Camera position is important yes, but the camera doesn't make everything.

And you dont get the point. Your argument keeps being the same

"LOTR had more influence cause the books influenced evth."

Thats a fallacy.

We are discussing the movies, and the movies alone. Saying the books is the movie is wrong. I didnt go to the theater to read the fucking book. I went to see the movie. Many movies that come from books blow ass many times. I went to see if LOTR the movie was a good movie. And it was. i honestly couldnt give a fuck if it was based off of a kindergarten story. The movie was awesome.

Im discussing what impact Star Wars had in the cinema industry when it came out,, comparing it to the impact the LOTR movies had when they came out.

I can bring the books into them because the movie is based off of the books therefore it's still apart of the argument. If you want impact, Return of the King made more money then all of the other Star Wars movie. How can you not say it had a bigger impact than Star Wars?

Aragorn wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:Ara, i CAN compare both visually, how the camera angles are done, how well the special effects are, how well focused the scenes are made, how well detailed a scene is. YOUR argument is stupid. i cant compare them becuz the visual effects are doing different things? no, thats wrong.

i cna see when one visual effect is done better then another. LOTR and the prequels are on par on that point.

i say its the icon, becuz honestly, if you come to a person and say.
"Name me some movies"

90% the time amongst the first names, Star Wars is gonna pop up.

I am not saying you can't compare them because they do different things I am saying the setting is completely different. You're not going to have graphics in LotR like there is in Star Wars because the setting is completely different. Futuristic vs past. You can't compare that. The camera angles I can see but the visual effects have little to do with camera angle and more to do with the editing involved in what the camera is capturing. Camera position is important yes, but the camera doesn't make everything.

And you dont get the point. Your argument keeps being the same

"LOTR had more influence cause the books influenced evth."

Thats a fallacy.

We are discussing the movies, and the movies alone. Saying the books is the movie is wrong. I didnt go to the theater to read the fucking book. I went to see the movie. Many movies that come from books blow ass many times. I went to see if LOTR the movie was a good movie. And it was. i honestly couldnt give a fuck if it was based off of a kindergarten story. The movie was awesome.

Im discussing what impact Star Wars had in the cinema industry when it came out,, comparing it to the impact the LOTR movies had when they came out.

I can bring the books into them because the movie is based off of the books therefore it's still apart of the argument. If you want impact, Return of the King made more money then all of the other Star Wars movie. How can you not say it had a bigger impact than Star Wars?

you reeeaaaally wanna bring money into this? Cause i bury you in sheer merchandise, spin offs, EU and etc. in that.

Im sorry if the idea of visual effects hasnt evolved in you, but in the movie business, anyone can tell you where the visuals are better here, or there. Its details and complex points. The addition of these points in the end counts towards the comparison. Want an example?

I saw a movie last night called Willow. its a fantasy movie like LOTR(ironically made by Lucas and Spielberg). Compare it to the prequels. Now tell me. Wich one is better in visual effects? You can tell me right? Its easy. Hell, compare LOTR to the original trilogy. You can right? yet, they have nothing to do with each other. Anyone will say LOTR has better visual effects. yet they have nothing to do with each other. Different settings. But you knwo LOTR has better visuals. The same way i can compare the prequels and LOTR. im sorry if you cant.

Stop bringing the books into this. im not discussing the books. Not to mention, they missed a lot of shit from the books that i think would be awesome in the movies. But thats nit picking. and irrelevant. The fact is the impact of the LOTR movies. Not the books. The movies.

/whipped

Yeah, bring money into it but I thought we were sticking to the movies not merchandise, spin offs or EU because thats not the movie itself. If I can't pull the books which is what the movie is to begin with, you ca't pull merchandise or spin offs even though its based off the movie. I never said LOTR had better visuals so why are you saying otherwise? I can compare the visuals to LOTR and Star Wars but it's stupid an inaccurate for reasons I have already listed. It's like comparing Bach to Mute Math. Two different times, two different settings, two different things. You can't compare it because they are different. If you want to do those complex points, then your not comparing the movies, your comparing the visual effects company used in filming the movies. ILM vs Weta is what the debate is turning into. So AGAIN I will say Star Wars had better visual effects. LOTR had a better plot and character development in my opinion and with that I am done posting in here because nobody is seeing the others perspective. I see where you are coming from but I disagree, so I am done. Have fun guys

Oh and to clarify why i said there would be no LOTR movies without Star Wars(exagerating a bit there, more like, it would be highly improbable nowadays, or the quality of the outcome would be shittier):

Meet the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

Movie industry A-movies, blockbusters are all about westerns, dukes of hazzard, james dean, hippy things, etc. Sci Fi and fantasy genre are reduced to the b-movie ratings, having low income in the box office, and low recognition from the media. The most famous sci fi at the time was Star Trek, a tv series with a cult following. Later on it would release its own franchise of movies, along the time of Star Wars, but unlike the latter, it didnt do the best it could in the box office.

Alas Star Wars arrives in the late 70s. It looks like a sci fi movie, but as random as the public can be, it becomes a fucking wide success, entailed by its fun and action packed element. A New Hope bombs so much, with 500 million dollars at the box office, it shatters the ideals of even the Oscars Academy, known to be nazis when it comes to sci fi and fantasy. A New Hope wins 6 Oscars, the most important of wich is best supporting character, given to Sir Alec Guiness. No major Oscars, but still, a quick revolution since before it, a sci fi movie would earn no oscars. After this, the hype starts, the culture changes, and in the perfect time. The 80s arrive, and we all know how fucking weird that decade is. It propels movie makers of the two underdog genres to propel, launching great hits. After almost 3 decades of expansion in the universes of fantasy movie making( i consider Sci Fi a type of Fantasy) arrives the movie adaptation of the father of Fantasy, LOTR. Trully the time had come, when the movie market was ready enough to make a respectful adaptation of the books.


Thus you see, why i said that.

I'd rather Star Wars plot any day.

And Ara, since you dont wanna bring in the rest, let me explain a bit of history to you.

LOTR has the father of Fantasy behind it. That makes more people wanna go see it.

LOTR comes in a time where movie goers have LARGELY, SUPER increased in numbers, and the movie industry makes more money then it made in the 70s. MUCH more.

Star Wars was a sci fi movie. That is not good for marketing in the time it came out.

Star Wars was a completely new story, not based on anything. No background to back it up.

That said, the Star Wars films still made more money then LOTR. Double the income of LOTR.

So yeah, just using the movies, you see that Lucas made more money out of it.

As for the visual effects, yeah i never wanted to compare those.

Oh yeah i remember, i was saying that the visual effects in the original trilogy were revolutionizing the cinematic industry in that aspect.

I still want to leave at that they are two incomparable classics of our generation...

lol, you fail. if anth, star wars downgraded the sci fi peak that is star trek. in terms of goodies, i prefer star wars. i always disliked too much sci fi ness. it needs temperance.

if you were gonna make it about the whole shebang, then my points were useless. althou it seems like your covering your ass from my arguments that annihilated your industry changing theory. if you take it from the books then yeah, LOTR was more significant then SW.

in the end, im not arguing wich one is better. that is imcomparable. both movies are good in different aspects and ways and cant be compared. only personal opinion carries on to that.

i was just arguing wich movie series had more impact in the industry. but you were tlaking about the books too after all...how convenient.

Wow, away for a few hours and four pages of debate breaks out.

Quickly I'll just say Star Wars is a better movie series, it is better for a few reasons, but to me, the best of those reasons is simple. Surprise. You could think you knew what was going to happen throughout the movies, but if it was your first time through, you would be surprised at many of the plot twists, something I didn't find in any LotR movie. I never read the books, but the movie was predictable, none of the twists made me bite my nails wondering if the character was going to pull through, I knew he was, because the movie wouldn't have a story if he didn't.

Interesting thing to note. If you adjust for current inflation, the two movies with the highest box office records were Gone With The Wind, and A New Hope. Return of the King didn't even make it into the top 25.

Aardvark wrote:Wow, away for a few hours and four pages of debate breaks out.

Quickly I'll just say Star Wars is a better movie series, it is better for a few reasons, but to me, the best of those reasons is simple. Surprise. You could think you knew what was going to happen throughout the movies, but if it was your first time through, you would be surprised at many of the plot twists, something I didn't find in any LotR movie. I never read the books, but the movie was predictable, none of the twists made me bite my nails wondering if the character was going to pull through, I knew he was, because the movie wouldn't have a story if he didn't.

Interesting thing to note. If you adjust for current inflation, the two movies with the highest box office records were Gone With The Wind, and A New Hope. Return of the King didn't even make it into the top 25.

Yeah i forgot that tiny detail called inflation. Lol silly me.

And about the twists...well LOTR had some twists for the new comer, return of Gandalf, Frodo's failure bla bla bla.


But Star Wars had, and still has, the greatest, most famous plot twist of ALL time. Now its not a surprise. but back then....oooh boy was it shocking.

OK I'll give you that the Sauron thing was a surprise, but Frodo failing? He was a bitch, it was obvious he was gonna fail.

This isn't the books, it's the movies. If you wanted to bring books into this *looks back at 100 plus collection of SW only books* then I have a shit load more ammunition. As a written work, yes then the LotR books have more then the SW scripts. As a movie, SW blows LotR out of the water. When it came out as a movie it revolutionized the industry, and as Dray pointed out, brought sci-fi/fantasy into the realm of credible films. It was a new story, one that drew you in, and one that had plot twists that were genuinely surprising. By the time they made LotR into movies it was an old story people had heard thousands of time: Group of Heros goes on quest against hoards of bad guys, Heroes lose friends, Heroes barely succeed and do so just in the nick of time. May have been original when it was a book, but as a movie, well anyone who's played an RPG has seen this general story many many times.

The difference is it's not a quest story, it's a war story. Every movie in history includes odds shifted in favor of the bad guys nad having the good guys miraculously come out on top. Difference is, LotR said: Nine people>army of Orcs, while SW said: Smaller army of spies>large army of troopers.

oh btw, thought id give a lil insight dist. i dont know if you knew this, but if oyu dont you should. Peter Jackson's LOTR was not the first adaptation of LOTR into a movie.
*waits for awe and shock*

Yeah, dunno if you guys didnt know this or simply didnt wanna reference it.

Two animated movies were made in 1978 and 1980(again, ironically in the days of Star Wars insurgency)

One was called Lord of the Rings and the other Return of the King. Lord of the Rings encompasses the first two volumes of the series, Fellowship and Towers.

Guess what? No one knows about them. They did gain some money when they came out, but no recognition in cinema, even thou they were actually good.

So yeah, there's a neat lil fact for you.

I love them both, but look, Star Wars obviously had the greatest impact on the world, just look at the forum that you are talking on!

FAIL

This is like asking whats better, vagina or blow jobs. You just dont compare or ask that question...

Um... I don;t even think that's remotely close... but, o-ok...

It's an analogy. I'm sure you have not learned about those in kindergarten yet?

Your right mister, we don't learn about those until 1st grade!!!!!











I was just saying your analogy was sorta "bleh."

@LotR fans... LOLZ lotr then not have a better plot
heres what they did
start at point A and try to get to point B , with some crazy stuff in the middle
WOW... really... thats it
there plot sucks in my POV
so star wars did not take anything out from lotr LOLZ
just watch clerks 2
but with the characters it may have been better , becouse in lotr u had a wizerd a hobbit a elf a dwarf and a human warrior , to me thats alittle better than star wars... a farm boy , a old man (jedi master, wizerd he he),a prince , a smuggler , and a walking carpet (wookie)

@Dray The Fingerless... i dont know if i can do this but i have received 1 of these before so ill give it to you
+rep
this dude has is facts straight

you know , i think star wars blows lotr out of the world
they have better movies (or have made more money , and dray just explained it)
have WAY more books
and + they have , toys, TV shows , video games (or WAY more video games), and bored games








some other things that are FACTS
when lucas was in the making of star wars he got hes ideas from;
WWII
Hidden temple
flash gorden
and shale n monks (also kog fu movies)
THATS IT , PERIOD.... ANY THING AND EVERY THING ELES U THINK OF IS JUST SIMULARITES , NOT PICK OFF FROM