lol

Dray The Fingerless wrote:im not so worried about oil. im more worried about economical stability. if this stability maintains, as oil runs out, prices go up, people will dispose of their cars and look for cheaper things. thus oil will die out. companies will shift their power to other sources, middle east will finally die in flames since no one will want their bloody oil, end of story.

DBLPFTW
I am all for a sustainable fuel source but it needs to be sustainable by the market as well. That means it should not have to rely on government subsidies to survive.

problem is ptolemy, the only reason the government CARES aout oil is because the fucking companies pressure teh government to care about it. their fucking greed n power is so fucking entrenched, they pressure, bribe, threaten, whatever they need to, to maintain the fast income of money, and assure their position as top in the fuel market. thus forcing the governments hand into something it doesnt need to put its hand in.

also, sustainable fuel source requires it to be sustainable in society as well, its already implied in the definition. sustainable doesnt only mean in terms of nature and resource consumption, but societal acceptance and economical stablity as well. geothermal, eolic, hidraulic, and solar energy sources would EASILY sustain the world, EASILY. hell, half of PORTUGAL is sustained by these sources, and it stopped increasing because we have to deal with this economical crisis before investing more into it. the problem is, corporations dont like to mess with their income, and since shifting money sources usually kill many companies in the process, in favor of sustaining the ones who are owners of the new source, they dont wanna budge.

I sense a lot of "FUCKIN'" in this thread xD xD xD Now, back to your posts.

Ptolemy wrote:so there is no slavery anymore? Everyone is as ethical as you seem to be?

I am not the one in a fantasy world. so far, in my 45 years of life, i have not seen a system that does not oppress people on some level. Until man is perfect, he will not have the capability to come up with a perfect system. The problem in any system will be that there will be those that have and those that have not. The have nots will always want what the wealth and possessions of those that have. There will always be an unfair advantage that will favor someone else and that advantage will be targeted for removal or criminalized. there will always be something to bitch about and you will never be complaining about the right thing. because you will never trust those that know what needs to be done.

Also atlas you will have to show me where socialism and or communism is working where everyone is equal. See my missive above^.

You want examples of working communism? I said Cuba would work had it not been that small and not self-sufficient. (Previous post concerning the embargo).See what i said about human greed. The ones who will ALWAYS want more, not depending on how rich they are, are actually quite few. See my previous post on human nature.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
there is no longer accepted slavery in most of the world. of course if we wanna talk about 3rd world countries then thats a whole bag of worms capitalism likes to eat from.

i dont get what your rant here is for other than trying to bring some reality to your point. you giving me a philosophical banter that brings no solution or counter point.my point is that capitalism relies on there being jobs and money flow. this is no longer happening, so how does capitalism survive? how does any of us survive, seeing how were being led by capitalism in the western world? it doesnt, as your country has adopted many measures of non capitalistic nature to survive. that capitalistic ideal you have in your mind would put half your country in misery, without a house, without food. i simply want a society as advanced as ours to man up and make sure eery human has the right to basic needs. i dont care if thats a socialist ideal, thats what should be first n foremost. i dont even fucking care about the social stratuses and social classes. im talking about we need to start living in a society where somewhere, a child is born, and it has the right to basic food, basic shelter and basic education. THATS IT. and dont bullshit saying tahts not acheivable, because it HAS to be. at some point in this age, it HAS to. were growing in population, and lowering on job availability. competitivie free market is NOT SUSTAINABLE. we need to advance, otehrwise...were all gonna fall back to being 10 % rich, 90% homeless. unless we find suddenly a new way to creat jobs out of thin air.

Communism has no classes. Its all YOU. Capitalism failed. Communism is built to ADJUST to the needs of each countrynation. No nation has the same resources... (Marx left only general guidance of how to achieve this ideal state, so that adaption would be possible)

No actually dipshit, youre lying. Marx theorized minute detailed procedures to make communism work, including, but not only, forceable cut of freedom, as well as obligatory reeducation(in the real world, not in coo coo land where you seem to be, this is called brain washing) and also military enforcement. Communism does not work, because it is not proven, and unless you can sustain your bullshit pandering with actual evidence, that human nature is created solely by the environment. You make of humans more than they are. Humans are animals and have instincts. Survival is one, and greed is only an efficient survival trigger. It matters not who has power, ANYONE WHO HAS POWER EVENTUALLY BECOMES GREEDY. the onl reason most people dont seem greedy is because they dont have THE MEANS TO ACQUIRE ANY POWER OR TAKE ANYTHING AWAY. that is why no man on earth should have total power over others. Your "the world is perfect and no one is greedy" doesnt work, because even you are greedy, self centered and egomaniacal. And if you are not, you arent human and no amount of saying it to yourself can change the fact its part of who we are. Greed and self interest is ALWAYS there, otherwise you simply would have no desire to live.

OMG Dray I agree with that statement...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

Most of those in Washington that lead the US went there with good intentions. Most of them get bitten by the environment there, the others do not last long. You have to have a bit of an ego to run for office anyway, that type of person is vulnerable to those that are masters at manipulation. Those that are not open to such manipulations are painted as stupid hicks that have no business breathing...

In the end certain elements of communism(distribution of basic needs to all, equal opportunity and rights to all) could work decently if we had a central distribution and management system, free of bias and in control of all the information it needed to access local needs n such. however, humanity is too much of a wild card, and this would require computerized systems beyond what we have. we have catalogation systems, but they are too spread out and localized.

basically a system like this would only work if the person in charge of it...wasnt human at all.

communism itself however, cannot work because it assumes humans all feel the same way, have the same knowledge, and are impervious to evil things.

Lol what if all the people had the SAME amount of power? Which is to say only as much as needed to raise one's family properly. (That includes all basic needs, education, etc)

Also, if people were educated properly they'd know that IT IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST, and that cooperating will reduce violence and crime to nothing. Greedy? That's not all of you. They will be outvoted. And if you too become greedy? Outvoted, too. It is the majority of people that have the actual power. The ones not in power are the ones that, given the opportunity would overthrow the government and the state, and who have denied the chance to work and produce equally as all people do in communism.

I like to think that with proper education people would realise what's in their best interest and that the majority would ALWAYS be more sane. Still, proper education is a potential problem 0.0


Tell me where communism DIDNT work.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:No actually dipshit, youre lying. Marx theorized minute detailed procedures to make communism work, including, but not only, forceable cut of freedom, as well as obligatory reeducation(in the real world, not in coo coo land where you seem to be, this is called brain washing) and also military enforcement

No, I'm not lying the STEPS that must be taken (not extreme mesures) are adaptable.
Secondly, obligatory reeducation is actually trying to help you over THE BRAINWASHING OF YOUR GOVERNMENTS THAT we're fighting terrorism! The vieatnamese bastards slaughtered our troops! Stalin was a slayer! We are socialists with a capitalist state! You must pay taxes to fund our reasonable campaigns against 3rd world countries! You wont believe the kind of brainwashing Greece has been a victim of... Just unbeleivable. The books that are sold, the so-called "non-party" newspaper editors who only look after the perseverance of the current state to aid their purposes. Not to mention television and the private channels...

Atlas wrote:

Dray The Fingerless wrote:No actually dipshit, youre lying. Marx theorized minute detailed procedures to make communism work, including, but not only, forceable cut of freedom, as well as obligatory reeducation(in the real world, not in coo coo land where you seem to be, this is called brain washing) and also military enforcement

No, I'm not lying the STEPS that must be taken (not extreme mesures) are adaptable.
Secondly, obligatory reeducation is actually trying to help you over THE BRAINWASHING OF YOUR GOVERNMENTS THAT we're fighting terrorism! The vieatnamese bastards slaughtered our troops! Stalin was a slayer! We are socialists with a capitalist state! You must pay taxes to fund our reasonable campaigns against 3rd world countries! You wont believe the kind of brainwashing Greece has been a victim of... Just unbeleivable. The books that are sold, the so-called "non-party" newspaper editors who only look after the perseverance of the current state to aid their purposes. Not to mention television and the private channels...

This is how moronic the things your e saying are.

1. There hasnt been a single time in history, EVER where communism has worked, not even remotely. You bring up cuba, stop being stupid. Cuba was under a dictatorship and was under extrem eoppresion poverty and denied basic rights. If anything, cuba and the USSR are an example of failed communism. Go live in the USA, THEN go live in the USSR, you tell me if you wouldnt run right back to america after experiencing the horror soviets lived in. stop lying to yourself that communism works or that it ever worked. it doesnt and never did.

2. right now you can go on the internet, libraries, multiple sources and educate yourself. you call current education brainwashing, but reeducation according to what SOEM people think is the communist way is even worse, since they would choose everything you learn and know. To say this is better than what we had is completely and utterly STUPID. Tell me smart ass, who would choose what is and what isnt proper to educate everyone? You? Let me show you why you and your communist friends arent fit for that in here
VVV

3. Greece has no fucking army that it sends to Iraq. fucking PORTUGAL sends more troops to iraq then you fuckers, and we sent like what, 1000 people when the war started, for civilian aid, not even for battle.. your army isnt involved, or your government for that matter, in any fucking cross sea army effort on a fight against terrorists. What put in your fucking head to make you think terrorists even care about that shithole of a country? Hell, your communist and anarchic parties are more terrorists than the terrorists youre imagining in your head.

4.UH NEWSFLASH BUDDY, THE MEDIA IS ALWAYS BIASED. YOU WONT FIND A NEWSPAPER or CHANNEL THAT IS COMPLETELY NEUTRAL. ITS EITHER GONNA ADVERTISE AGAINST WHAT YOU THINK AT SOME POINT, OR PANDER TO YOUR LIKES. maybe if you learned to watch the news and decipher what tehy say and instead of drooling from your mouth with hate and insultnig them, youd get that.

5. Communism has no voting. Democracy does. Communism has no one in charge of voting. It just assumes people would do it on their own. Communism has no centralized government. It assumes global democracy works. Like i said, communism is ideal because it only works in an ideal perfect world, where technology isnt a barrier, and where people are robots, not humans.

Atlas wrote:Lol what if all the people had the SAME amount of power? Which is to say only as much as needed to raise one's family properly. (That includes all basic needs, education, etc)

Also, if people were educated properly they'd know that IT IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST, and that cooperating will reduce violence and crime to nothing. Greedy? That's not all of you. They will be outvoted. And if you too become greedy? Outvoted, too. It is the majority of people that have the actual power. The ones not in power are the ones that, given the opportunity would overthrow the government and the state, and who have denied the chance to work and produce equally as all people do in communism.

I like to think that with proper education people would realise what's in their best interest and that the majority would ALWAYS be more sane. Still, proper education is a potential problem 0.0


Tell me where communism DIDNT work.

Most of that actually sounds like Democracy. Sounds good in theory. Democracy only survives untill the people find they can vote themselves largess (read subsidies) from the government coffers. Then the government will be banckrupt. USSR, Poland, Cube hangs on by a thread through the force of will of it's rulers and force of arms of it's police and security forces.

I never understood the need to FUND parties with subsidies. The internet pretty much makes sure you dont have to pay almsot ANYTHING to advertise yourself.

This is how moronic the things youre saying are.

1. There hasnt been a single time in history, EVER where communism has worked, not even remotely. You bring up cuba, stop being stupid. Cuba was under a dictatorship and was under extrem eoppresion poverty and denied basic rights. If anything, cuba and the USSR are an example of failed communism. Go live in the USA, THEN go live in the USSR, you tell me if you wouldnt run right back to america after experiencing the horror soviets lived in. stop lying to yourself that communism works or that it ever worked. it doesnt and never did.





You must be referring to Batista, the REAL tyrant of Cuba. Cause after starving for years, the people rose up against him and led by Castro took over hunting down foreign investers from your beloved USA who had turned Cuba into a place only for cazinos, ciggars and prostitutes, at the cost of the citizens. Because for all I know, the people loved Castro for what he did. BUT, the embargo was not very kind to them. Something to be expected as USA hated to lose such an investment. That was not dictatorship...



USA > USSR

Really? Given I'm one of the millions of homeless who starve and suffer daily in the USA? I'd rather be in the USSR where my education, health and home were guaranteed (It depends on what age you're referring to. I'm referring to the age after socialism was established. Right after the redistribution of wealth.)



2. right now you can go on the internet, libraries, multiple sources and educate yourself. you call current education brainwashing, but reeducation according to what SOEM people think is the communist way is even worse, since they would choose everything you learn and know. To say this is better than what we had is completely and utterly STUPID. Tell me smart ass, who would choose what is and what isnt proper to educate everyone? You? Let me show you why you and your communist friends arent fit for that in here

And who picks what you and me are currently being given to study? You? Me? Your capitalist government? Maybe that's it. You think the internet is unbiased? Lol, people who have been reading those biased newspapers and watching those biased channels are on the internet too you know.

3. Greece has no fucking army that it sends to Iraq. fucking PORTUGAL sends more troops to iraq then you fuckers, and we sent like what, 1000 people when the war started, for civilian aid, not even for battle.. your army isnt involved, or your government for that matter, in any fucking cross sea army effort on a fight against terrorists. What put in your fucking head to make you think terrorists even care about that shithole of a country? Hell, your communist and anarchic parties are more terrorists than the terrorists youre imagining in your head.


Fail greece has actually sent army to Iraq as WELL as send the fleet against Kadafi (or w/e his name is).And what the fck has that got to do with our discussion? The communist party isnt in charge of Greece!!! Also, ANARCHIC PARTIES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH US. That's something you'll HAVE to get off your head since the communist party here discourages EVERYTHING to do with rebelous acts of terrorism, violence, vandalism, etc. (Most of them, if not all, are organised by our very government to distract the people and make them think that they NEED more cameras in the street. They NEED you to have no private life.


4.UH NEWSFLASH BUDDY, THE MEDIA IS ALWAYS BIASED. YOU WONT FIND A NEWSPAPER or CHANNEL THAT IS COMPLETELY NEUTRAL. ITS EITHER GONNA ADVERTISE AGAINST WHAT YOU THINK AT SOME POINT, OR PANDER TO YOUR LIKES. maybe if you learned to watch the news and decipher what tehy say and instead of drooling from your mouth with hate and insultnig them, youd get that.





True, but people still read them. And im not talking about myself fool. Nor you. Im referring to the people.

5. Communism has no voting. Democracy does. Communism has no one in charge of voting. It just assumes people would do it on their own. Communism has no centralized government. It assumes global democracy works. Like i said, communism is ideal because it only works in an ideal perfect world, where technology isnt a barrier, and where people are robots, not humans.[/quote]



Last time I checked your "Democracy" is voting people to ensure you get to work for them, because of the mass unemployment they themselves have created. Also, communism and the representatives would be established by the people after the revolution. By (guess what?) voting.


Also, please stop being so aggressive this is (supposedly) a civilised talk for goodness's sake.

Atlas wrote:
Also, please stop being so aggressive this is (supposedly) a civilised talk for goodness's sake.

it's normal >_>

To be that aggressive? 0.o


Damn, I must be a rly big p***y...






























































puppy

we also try to refrain from calling each other names... such as 'fool'.

Not sure if there was a mis type there and that was short for foolish but you should be careful.

Aureus wrote:This conversation is gay

See this is ok...

communism is only good in a Utopian environment. realistically, itll always fail.

I guess you will have to show me where the people in the soviet union ever got to vote on anything. and the time of prosperity, after the redistribution of wealth, and the slaughter of the academics, and the slaughter of the craftsmen, and the slaughter of anyone that owned a business the redistribution of land from the farmers giving it to people to work that didn't know how to grow anything...

Then the slaughter of anyone that didn't like living under communism.

Sounds like utopia to me...

obviously you fail to see the intrincancies and complex bonuses and positive points of a zombie nation ptolemy.

I am sure the bonuses are out there...

but after a while there is no one left to kill...

WELL ISNT THAT JUST WHAT HEAVEN IS ALL ABOUT?

Ptolemy wrote:I guess you will have to show me where the people in the soviet union ever got to vote on anything. and the time of prosperity, after the redistribution of wealth, and the slaughter of the academics, and the slaughter of the craftsmen, and the slaughter of anyone that owned a business the redistribution of land from the farmers giving it to people to work that didn't know how to grow anything...

Then the slaughter of anyone that didn't like living under communism.

Sounds like utopia to me...

your confusing it too much with Marx communism >.<

soran wrote:

Ptolemy wrote:I guess you will have to show me where the people in the soviet union ever got to vote on anything. and the time of prosperity, after the redistribution of wealth, and the slaughter of the academics, and the slaughter of the craftsmen, and the slaughter of anyone that owned a business the redistribution of land from the farmers giving it to people to work that didn't know how to grow anything...

Then the slaughter of anyone that didn't like living under communism.

Sounds like utopia to me...

your confusing it too much with Marx communism >.<

That is what communism is in its truest form. All the newly appointed ideas are just communistic implants into a socialistic-capitalistic nation. Basically it would be the same as whats happening in America, where youre implementing more socialistic measures in a capitalistic environment, but instead of socialism, youre just implanting a bit of communism(PSSST, THATS WAT WE SMART PEOPLE CALL A BAD IDEA)