Re: lol

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:08 am

Dray The Fingerless wrote:henceforth why capitalism no longer works....glad to see you have a brain cog.

seconded

sw1ft wrote:
Dray The Fingerless wrote: why capitalism no longer works

none further than mainstream school edu?

Socialism ftw. Staying there for too long wont do you any good though. Communism is required to continue...

Aardvark wrote:Capitalism works just fine Dray, what the U.S. has is not capitalism though it's an attempt to be both socialism and capitalism and it's succeeding at neither.

There's no such thing mate. When capitalism whants money in FEW people's hands, and socialism wants power to the people, no cooperation is possible. They're making a fool of you. Either capitalism/imperialism or socialism/communism. You cant go in between. Just impossible.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:oh? then how come the candy man is dead ? replaced with vending machines. restaurants? replaced with fast food(fast food restaurants employ at most half the staff of a normal restaurant of teh same caliber in customer numbers.) im not saying there wont be jobs serv. but they will be unbearably too little jobs...service providing doesnt employ nearly as much as industrial employment did. it just DOESNT. and with self education, people wont have to rely on a man coming to their hosue everytime sth breaks. at least if humans are to depend on a free market. i think people are gonna need basic rights, because dependence on finding a job and getting money will no longer be sustainable enough. thats what im saying in the end.

also, 30 years ago, people didnt think the industrial sector would be completely dead, or that we would no longer need the post office services. in 10 20 years, automation is teh future. humanity has plateaued in advance, and is now only improving quality, wich means coming closer to cornucopia.

also, on other news, bacterias were found that produce natural fuel usable in cars by consuming anything really, like trash. aka, we found a sustainable fuel source. clean too, and not as dangerous as normal bio fuels., that can be acquired by using our wastes.

Not gonna happen. Technology won't be funded cause the war against terrorirsm (aka CIA, weapons sold to Iraq, etc) needs funds. And you'd think education and hospitals would be more crucial...

by **Ptolemy** Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:24 pm

you people do not know anything about history... seriously and you are apparently blind to what is happening in Europe as well.

I would say you people get what you deserve but you tend to drag the rest of us with down you.

by **soran** Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:44 pm

in history there has been, i guess we could call waves, of civilization evolution. the 20th century was apart of the third wave. i think whats going on here is the third wave has met its end, and now since we're at the end we are feeling the effect of it. if this is correct, that means that in the next 20-40(extremely rough guess) it should be recycled and capitalism(or whatever form of government/economy replaces it) shall be stable for a good amount of time.

civilization has a habit of repeating itself in all aspects. this is happening right now.

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:48 pm

History is history. Mistakes were made - thats for sure. That doesn't mean that things cant look up. And who's dragging who?

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:51 pm

DAOUBLE POSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR

I forgot to say... Please....

lol - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-jXj1s9oT7CZvV-pHpkIf-JibN3bx2J9dYEedLZvPUejG0EMJ

lol - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-jXj1s9oT7CZvV-pHpkIf-JibN3bx2J9dYEedLZvPUejG0EMJ

Spoiler:

by **Aureus** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:05 pm

Communism doesn't work. And tbh I don't want to have everything be exactly the same. I merely think that we shouldn't be so focused on destroying each other for personal gain. It's more a humanitarian outlook of civilization. Not sure what you would classify that as. Perhaps socialism.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:08 pm

dunno why it needs to be classified. people forget you can actually have things that arent socialism communism, imperialism, capitalism, etc. we should do what is best for us. not follow these archaic philosophies.

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:15 pm

Well, that is communism you know...

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:25 pm

Atlas wrote:Well, that is communism you know...

you need to go and learn what communism is. right now youre just saying vain words.

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:32 pm

Right... "Do what is best for US".

Define "us" please.

Btw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism Im guessing that it lists how communism works (and socialism i guess), so cog can tell us why it doesnt...

by **Aureus** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:36 pm

The people you twat

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:38 pm

Atlas wrote:Btw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism Im guessing that it lists how communism works (and socialism i guess), so cog can tell us why it doesnt....

by **Ptolemy** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:39 pm

when someone comes up with a system in which i can make money off of my ideas better that with free market capitalism then i will be a happy camper.

Socialism failed everywhere it has been implemented because it is the stepping stone to totalitarianism and peopl want to be free, or at least want the illusion of such.

I think the only way socialism will work is if it is global. Everyone in the same system. no national identity, and no real reason to be productive except service to the state. thing is the rulers will always be better off than the people. It is always that way. look, once again, at your history. even in that society in which we would all be 'equal' we will not be 'equal'. You think power goes to the people in a socialist society then you are certainly naive. You can look that up in your history books as well.

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:52 pm

Of course you'll be making money off of your ideas since you will actually be funded to do so, instead of $$$ being spent in "Counter-Terrorism". Also, socialism is ONLY effective if it eventually leads to Communism (Marx), therefore it is BOUND to fail should it cease to progress. Alas, history shows that Cuba functioned, but was too small to withstand this: (WIKIPEDIA: By 1963, Cuba was moving towards a full-fledged Communist system modeled on the USSR.[76] The U.S. imposed a complete diplomatic and commercial embargo on Cuba and began Operation Mongoose, a program of covert CIA operations.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:54 pm

rennaissance italy. rennaissance everywhere really. no corporations. no economical complexities. you did sth, you sold it. thats the last time in history your "ideas" paid for your life. and it was a shitty life, if i might add, and most of the time you lived in the streets.

and when, in the history of capitalism, or really, when in history, at anytime, has society lived well out of "ideas"? rather than "corporate structures and employment" ? i dunno what world you live in. last time i saw, the one i live in, very few people, USA included, live out of their "ideas". most just live in the shithole and fade away, drones to corporations and megastructures.

you keep having that little dual war of economical structure in your head, the world is trying to come up with something that isnt simply FAILING right now. capitalism or socialism or whatever the hell you wanna name it to hate or blindly love it.

also, history has taught mankind its mistakes and improved. or is slavery, hygiene, social integrity and morals, education, and acceptance of difference all part of a cycle that repeats itself? i think not.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:57 pm

Atlas wrote:Of course you'll be making money off of your ideas since you will actually be funded to do so, instead of $$$ being spent in "Counter-Terrorism". Also, socialism is ONLY effective if it eventually leads to Communism (Marx), therefore it is BOUND to fail should it cease to progress. Alas, history shows that Cuba functioned, but was too small to withstand this: (WIKIPEDIA: By 1963, Cuba was moving towards a full-fledged Communist system modeled on the USSR.[76] The U.S. imposed a complete diplomatic and commercial embargo on Cuba and began Operation Mongoose, a program of covert CIA operations.

communism is a societal system where ownership or social classes do not exist, meaning everyone owns everything and nothing at the same time, and all deserve the same in equal measure.

this is impossible do to equality being non existant among humans(people are all unique and have all unique basic needs) and because human nature dictates that we are infallible, meaning, we are greedy selfish and untrustworthy. thus communism will ALWAYS fail because humans fail.

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:04 pm

Everyone onws everything does not mean that everyone is treated in the same way.

Human nature only involves the instinct of survival. It is this instinct that guides all those things you mentioned. Why? Cause people realise that only through unwanted means will they secure the future of their well-being and family. HOWEVER, should they be ejucated (no hope for that in capitalism) they will learn that communism allows people to cooperate, each producing and receiving equally, therefore without taking from others. You see, the greed that you say is in human nature is actually inspired by all the misery around us, brought by capitalism (unemployment, no equal chances, no free education and health care)

by **Atlas** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:06 pm

Bb ill check on this thread tomorrow gtg...

by **Ptolemy** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:17 pm

so there is no slavery anymore? Everyone is as ethical as you seem to be?

I am not the one in a fantasy world. so far, in my 45 years of life, i have not seen a system that does not oppress people on some level. Until man is perfect, he will not have the capability to come up with a perfect system. The problem in any system will be that there will be those that have and those that have not. The have nots will always want what the wealth and possessions of those that have. There will always be an unfair advantage that will favor someone else and that advantage will be targeted for removal or criminalized. there will always be something to bitch about and you will never be complaining about the right thing. because you will never trust those that know what needs to be done.

Also atlas you will have to show me where socialism and or communism is working where everyone is equal. See my missive above^.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:27 pm

Ptolemy wrote:so there is no slavery anymore? Everyone is as ethical as you seem to be?

I am not the one in a fantasy world. so far, in my 45 years of life, i have not seen a system that does not oppress people on some level. Until man is perfect, he will not have the capability to come up with a perfect system. The problem in any system will be that there will be those that have and those that have not. The have nots will always want what the wealth and possessions of those that have. There will always be an unfair advantage that will favor someone else and that advantage will be targeted for removal or criminalized. there will always be something to bitch about and you will never be complaining about the right thing. because you will never trust those that know what needs to be done.

Also atlas you will have to show me where socialism and or communism is working where everyone is equal. See my missive above^.

there is no longer accepted slavery in most of the world. of course if we wanna talk about 3rd world countries then thats a whole bag of worms capitalism likes to eat from.

i dont get what your rant here is for other than trying to bring some reality to your point. you giving me a philosophical banter that brings no solution or counter point.my point is that capitalism relies on there being jobs and money flow. this is no longer happening, so how does capitalism survive? how does any of us survive, seeing how were being led by capitalism in the western world? it doesnt, as your country has adopted many measures of non capitalistic nature to survive. that capitalistic ideal you have in your mind would put half your country in misery, without a house, without food. i simply want a society as advanced as ours to man up and make sure eery human has the right to basic needs. i dont care if thats a socialist ideal, thats what should be first n foremost. i dont even fucking care about the social stratuses and social classes. im talking about we need to start living in a society where somewhere, a child is born, and it has the right to basic food, basic shelter and basic education. THATS IT. and dont bullshit saying tahts not acheivable, because it HAS to be. at some point in this age, it HAS to. were growing in population, and lowering on job availability. competitivie free market is NOT SUSTAINABLE. we need to advance, otehrwise...were all gonna fall back to being 10 % rich, 90% homeless. unless we find suddenly a new way to creat jobs out of thin air.

by **soran** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:31 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote: renaissance Italy. rennaissance everywhere really. no corporations. no economical complexities. you did sth, you sold it. thats the last time in history your "ideas" paid for your life. and it was a shitty life, if i might add, and most of the time you lived in the streets.

and when, in the history of capitalism, or really, when in history, at anytime, has society lived well out of "ideas"? rather than "corporate structures and employment" ? i dunno what world you live in. last time i saw, the one i live in, very few people, USA included, live out of their "ideas". most just live in the shithole and fade away, drones to corporations and megastructures.

you keep having that little dual war of economical structure in your head, the world is trying to come up with something that isnt simply FAILING right now. capitalism or socialism or whatever the hell you wanna name it to hate or blindly love it.

also, history has taught mankind its mistakes and improved. or is slavery, hygiene, social integrity and morals, education, and acceptance of difference all part of a cycle that repeats itself? i think not.

basically exactly what i said lol the human being will always have greed, need to survive, the need to want, ect. that is why any form of government like communism or capitalism will ALWAYS EVENTUALLY fail because the human factor will eventually put itself inside that form of government. then that form becomes contaminated i guess you could say. untill we can find a form of government that will include no human factor getting involved AT ALL, there will never be a permanent form of government.

case in point, when aard posted about that new fuel discovery that turns waste into fuel or whatever, right there will be shoved away. know why? because Americas congress have their hands in oil stocks and all that jazz. but what is more temporary, waste or oil? oil. but what does congress care about? the value of that oil.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:35 pm

im not so worried about oil. im more worried about economical stability. if this stability maintains, as oil runs out, prices go up, people will dispose of their cars and look for cheaper things. thus oil will die out. companies will shift their power to other sources, middle east will finally die in flames since no one will want their bloody oil, end of story.

by **soran** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:37 pm

unfortunately, alot of government rely on oil to help their economy. when oil will rise, it will impact the economy HUGELY. itll leave permanent damage before we can jus switch to cheaper ways of transportation

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:40 pm

itll be gradual thou soran. same thing happened when we shifted from coal to oil. thing is, that happened for efficiency sake, this will happen for economic flow.

by **Ptolemy** Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:54 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
Ptolemy wrote:so there is no slavery anymore? Everyone is as ethical as you seem to be?

I am not the one in a fantasy world. so far, in my 45 years of life, i have not seen a system that does not oppress people on some level. Until man is perfect, he will not have the capability to come up with a perfect system. The problem in any system will be that there will be those that have and those that have not. The have nots will always want what the wealth and possessions of those that have. There will always be an unfair advantage that will favor someone else and that advantage will be targeted for removal or criminalized. there will always be something to bitch about and you will never be complaining about the right thing. because you will never trust those that know what needs to be done.

Also atlas you will have to show me where socialism and or communism is working where everyone is equal. See my missive above^.

there is no longer accepted slavery in most of the world. of course if we wanna talk about 3rd world countries then thats a whole bag of worms capitalism likes to eat from.

i dont get what your rant here is for other than trying to bring some reality to your point. you giving me a philosophical banter that brings no solution or counter point.my point is that capitalism relies on there being jobs and money flow. this is no longer happening, so how does capitalism survive? how does any of us survive, seeing how were being led by capitalism in the western world? it doesn't, as your country has adopted many measures of non capitalistic nature to survive. that capitalistic ideal you have in your mind would put half your country in misery, without a house, without food. i simply want a society as advanced as ours to man up and make sure eery human has the right to basic needs. i dont care if thats a socialist ideal, thats what should be first n foremost. i dont even fucking care about the social stratuses and social classes. im talking about we need to start living in a society where somewhere, a child is born, and it has the right to basic food, basic shelter and basic education. THATS IT. and dont bullshit saying tahts not acheivable, because it HAS to be. at some point in this age, it HAS to. were growing in population, and lowering on job availability. competitivie free market is NOT SUSTAINABLE. we need to advance, otehrwise...were all gonna fall back to being 10 % rich, 90% homeless. unless we find suddenly a new way to creat jobs out of thin air.

You talk as though there are only 2 million jobs in the world and as soon as those are filled there are no more...As the population grows so do the markets if they are allowed to do so. . thats why things have to grow as there are more people there is more demand as demand goes up there will be businesses that will start and grow to fill that demand. as those businesses grow, they will create more jobs. it is the folks that believe that everything is owed to them that mess this thing up. if you get to work and be productive you will be self sufficient have the ability to get those things you need with out the government having to take them from me to give you. That will help fuel the market as well. The uncertainty of unstable leadership or leadership that seems bent on the destruction of that system will put a halt to it absolutely.

See it all boils down to greed I resent having the money i work hard for taxed to give those that do not want to work what they want to have. Notice i did not say those that could not work, but to be honest the government has no business in that endeavor either the government cannot run it's own house and you people want it to run everything.

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