TSA, they want your body..

Thing is airlines are a private industry, they can easily fight these regulations, but they choose not to do so.

Aardvark wrote:Thing is airlines are a private industry, they can easily fight these regulations, but they choose not to do so.

well i could probably guess why they don't. They probably don't want any government entanglements. And are afraid of being shut-down?

Airlines, despite all the trouble they cause, are the only viable method for international travel, and inside the U.S. they have a not insignificant income, much of which the government taxes. So to put it bluntly, the government couldn't afford to shut them down. Along with massive loss of revenue there would be a national riot due to the sudden loss of convenient travel.

solves your air terrorism problem....if there was one to begin with.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:solves your air terrorism problem....if there was one to begin with.

there was, but ever since the beefed up security (paranoia i should say) those days are over really.

oh there was?

yes actually. After 911 people got dramatically paranoid, but there were several cases in the US that involved people getting onto planes with explosives. However after all the beefed up security no1 really worries about terrorists targeting planes.

Yeah but most terrorism threats are detected by passengers AFTER the person is on the plane proving the security measures are less then effective.

Well yes that is true. However we haven't had a REAL threat with plane attacks lately. It is STILL the safest way to travel.

It's the safest way because of the engineering, not the security measures. When a passenger jet crashes with fatal repercussions it will take well over 100 people with it, that's not acceptable, so engineering and flying protocols have to be restricted to ensure it happens rarely. Cars usually carry between 1 and 4 people, so when they crash it's tragic, but not unusual and this has a cumulative effect so it goes less noticed. Add into that that removing driver error and mechanical failure from those fatal crashes and you have a death statistic very close to that of airline travel. These two fields have much stricter requirements in flying.

yes but my point is not many people worry so much about getting on a plane without worrying about terrorists on planes.

Yes, people are stupid, they'd rather have a false sense of security provided by inane security procedures then actually pay attention when someone is acting suspicious.

well then again there are some mixed-feelings about it. Some people are paranoid, some could really care less, and others (which is probably more than half of the public) don't know whats going on.

^ i can't believe i agree wit u. xD

Dray The Fingerless wrote:TSA agents, as much as they complain and feel sick, are not obligated to do sth they find immoral and disgusting. they are not slaves, and are free to complain to their bosses and quit their jobs. Althou quitting a job is infact, not a viable solution for a person these days. Still, it is their choice to remain working, so they cant really complain about what people say. People are frustrated, and they take it out where they can. Senators and leaders dont listen. TSA bosses are not available. Your leadership and capitalism ways have made sure that the top dogs never hear or bother for sth on the lower floors, unless there is a massive complaint and city wide riots.

Also to remind you that flying is not a right, but a privilege, and when you buy a ticket you are conforming to their procedures.

The chances of a terrorist attack are incredibly slim, but, the procedure itself is hardly unfair is a preventative measure. There is a pretty large chance that by exposure to cold, Exposure to excessive natural cold 1 in 5,426, that we will die, so we where sweaters and the such. Preventative measures, its only when those people in an aircraft with terrorists do they begin to wish that they had taken the not inconvenient measures for safety.

Also there is a reason that senators and leaders don't listen, contrary to popular opinion, a common misconception in the US, we were not founded on democracy, in fact, we were founded upon the principles of checks and balances, the republican government is a check to the common excesses of democracy, just look at the articles of confederation.

No where did I say that flying was a right.

They want my body ... ?

You seem to be missing something Nihil, these measures do NOT work, sweaters do. And while it may not be a right to fly, neither does it say the government has the right to take away my Constitutional rights in order to fly.

Aardvark wrote:You seem to be missing something Nihil, these measures do NOT work, sweaters do. And while it may not be a right to fly, neither does it say the government has the right to take away my Constitutional rights in order to fly.

If the government has no power to take away your rights, lets get rid of all the metal detectors and such and let people fly as they will, guns bombs and all.

Tell me then, how many people would take advantage of that? The reason there has been no terrorist attack that has been successful is because of increased screening and better trained and more cautious flight attendants and passengers.

these screeners show the outline of any weapon, and its only from sheer public outcry that we have the pat down available.

More importantly, it is an incredibly minor inconvenience that may save your life

Nihil wrote:.... The reason there has been no terrorist attack that has been successful is because of increased screening and better trained and more cautious flight attendants and passengers...

Pure speculation.

They're called "god given rights" because they should be given to every citizen of the country that holds these rights. If they can take away my rights without justifiable cause then they are no different from a dictatorship.

Look up the success rate for threat detection Nihil, it's piss poor. 60% of threats go undiagnosed by TSA and are picked up by your average everyday Joe. If security can't even break even with everyday people, then it's pointless.

Aardvark wrote:They're called "god given rights" because they should be given to every citizen of the country that holds these rights. If they can take away my rights without justifiable cause then they are no different from a dictatorship.

Look up the success rate for threat detection Nihil, it's piss poor. 60% of threats go undiagnosed by TSA and are picked up by your average everyday Joe. If security can't even break even with everyday people, then it's pointless.

Find one that was found by your average Joe then? I'm not saying its perfect, I'm saying its better, in fact, I'm saying its far more effective than what we had before. Also, like I said, if they are your constitutional rights, lets do away with all the safety requirements for these things, besides, look at what safety requirements do to our chances. Airbag requirements? No problem chances of dying are 1 in 18,585. Do away with airbags? Increase the chances of dying.

Champion wrote:

Nihil wrote:.... The reason there has been no terrorist attack that has been successful is because of increased screening and better trained and more cautious flight attendants and passengers...

Pure speculation.

True, but it is the conclusion i've arrived at.

I agree with Champ, and he lives in America, where your understanding of the outside world is HEAVILY filtered.(i saw it with my own eyes)

In fact Nihil, Europe goes thru 100x more threats than the USA does, sometimes from ourselves, and we dont react so violently. I think this bullshit statistical excuse youve aranged to justify piss poor management and clear idiocy is laughable. Statistics, specially concerning factors with a high number of variables, are, at the most, slightly guidable.

As for Aard, is anyone making you fly? Physically or forcefully making you fly? No. You buy your plane ticket out of your own made freedom choice will. Now when you buy your ticket, it says the procedures for the airport. When you buy your ticket, they TELL you that by flying you will allow them to strip search you. You are STILL not obligated to go, but if you WANT to sit on that plane, you must do this. Thus, no rights are taken from you. You are abdicating willingfully your rights when you accept to go thru with it. And even when youre at the airport, you can just turn around , go home, and not do anything.

The circunstances of this are not relevant to the argument of rights being broken.