Abortion? or No Abortion?

abortion = not killing something that can live by itself because it is technically part of the woman's body,

abortion = woman's choice

abortion = the decision to not have a child if an accident occurs

abortion = a chance for teenagers to go on in school without a child so that they can become active members of society

wanting abortion = woman's opinion, as it is her body, you can't tell her what she can and can't do.

Why not, we tell normal people that they can't kill a random stranger on the street because you don't like them. We also have laws that tell doctors they can't take away someone's life support. There's not really much difference, except aborting is for the sake of convenience so that's OK.

ah, not good examples aard. its HER body. you might wanan find sth else other then ppl who dont affect you in a physical way

the fetus feeds off of the woman, her body, her "thing" her problem, her choice.

It's a perfectly fine example. Say I'm an adult, I have a parent on required life support but still fully conscious. Now that parent is still completely entitled to rights to live so I can't take them off, but their continual care is eating through my own livelihood. If I abandon them I can be sued for elder abuse, if I don't I'll be in the poor house, but I don't get to choose for them because they still have their senses and have a right to live.

Universal healthcare

/OH SNAP

as Cog likes to say recently,

on a side note, anyone noticed that? XD

Universal Health Care just euthanizes anyone who can't recover to be semi-independent at least.

rumor, look at Great Britain, there would be COMPLETE public outrage if that happened, which it hasn't i've talked to a nice British lady before, and she says she doesn't want to be a U.S citizen because she would loose her free health care from being citizen in Britain, Canada, and Australia, or maybe New Zealand, i forget which one,

I Digress, women's bodies, women's choices

Yes and I know a family who had an older family member on life-support in Great Britain, and they did pull the plug against the family's wishes.

well, where is the public outrage?

if that happened "seriously" then the media would eat it up

Why, they never eat up the fact that the same happens in Russia all the time. Many people even in our own country, believe that it's the job of old people to go die if they can't work anymore, sometimes even if they are. My mother, just over 50, got told that by a doctor in not so many words, even though she still wanted to work, but no one would hire her because she was "too old to work."

what a load of bull, no one believes that

so

prove it then?

How about this instead. How can a system exist in a nation with huge financial debt, that takes care of everyone equally with absolutely no downside? There's a reason there are downsides to insurance as it is, because there are only so many resources, if you all of a sudden erase the problems arising from limited resources, then you're taking resources from elsewhere.

You can't make something from nothing. So if you make health care easy for the young, then you have to remove health care from the old. Either that or you limit health care to everyone.

its called Keynesian Economics,

in fact, i'm doing my sophomore research paper on it.


also illmare, you are looking at it like she meant to have a baby, letting someone deal with the consequences, as i pointed out, is not good for the economy because she may have become a more active member of society if she didn't have a child to deal with.

and no one is truly evil, no one deserves to suffer.

If you fuck up you deal with the consequences. That includes if in the process of fucking up you get knocked up. There are too many safety measures readily available to anyone for there to be any real excuse except you fucked up. It's killing to cover up your own mistake.

And Economics doesn't hold the ability to suddenly make more resources then exist, and if it claims it does it's false economy.

a fetus is part of the woman, it is not able to survive on its own, it is part of a woman, therefore, her body, which is hers, not anyone elses, especially not the governments.

also, keynesian economics holds that unused potential in the economy can be counterbalanced by deficit spending, also, the government will raise taxes on everyone, not as much on the poor, to help pay for it, also, wages may have to be adjusted for doctors and such, but in the end, people will live, at the expense of paying more taxes.

resources that are needed for healthcare: people, electricity, rooms, equipment, blood, and water,

water is easily obtainable, and the others can be bought, at a steady rate, so as not to cause inflation in that one region of the economy, and to not allow it to collapse.


also, if i ever have a child, illmare, it would be adopted, i see adoption as the new wave of the future, as soon as people's self preservation instinct kicks in, that the world population is too big.

A fetus will become a person. People can only exist by being part of another's body at conception. Here's another for you, when a child is born it can't survive without someone to look over it, so isn't it OK to kill and infant if it's OK to kill a fetus? Or is this just another hypocritical part of society that we only feel bad if it has a face that can stare back at us?

And that line is perhaps the most propaganda-ish thing I've heard all year. Not kidding it sounds like a statement someone's been brain-washed to recite.

you are calling my opinion one that people are brain-washed to recite by what?

the evil liberal media?

the posters praising our dictator, the president, for life?

a fetus is not a person, it cannot think, and for that reason, you cannot say that killing it is like killing anything else, i mean jee-whiz, we have soldiers killing people in Afghanistan and people dying in Haiti but the nation would go belly up in rage if we raised taxes to help those people, and now you are going to tell me that this, abortion, is any different?

also, if you call a fetus a person, sure then its murder, but then, the death penalty should be excused because that person could have a child.

saying something will be is not the same as saying it is, because, until it is, it is not. Because, then, why should we kill deer, they might breed with our species some million years from this day.

I'm calling it that because the statement acts like the current system wants to be inefficient. THAT sounds like more of a conspiracy theory then anything I could think up.

Could and will be are different. When you abort a baby you are aborting something that otherwise WILL become a fully conscious human, not something that COULD become one. There's a big difference there, one is a possibility, the other is a certainty.

So let me turn your argument around. An infant can't reason at the same level adults can, so it's OK to kill infants right? After all they can't complain.

i was extending the logic, but w/e

i'll put it plain and simple again

to say something will be, does not mean it is.

You cannot distinguish the fetus of a dolphin from a human in the early stages, and not until way later can you actually distinguish it. If it cannot suffer, if it cannot think, if it cannot feel, it is not alive except in the biological sense.

This isn't killing a baby, a baby is a human being, this is a fetus, it will be a human, but it isn't, at that point it is a bunch of cells beginning to react to enzymes and such having been transcribed by trna into proteins, turning into a loosely organized bunch of cells, only much later they are specialized with repression of certain DNA sites. If that glob of cells can do anything, it is inhabit a woman's belly until about 9 months, when it is able to live on its own, then it is actually a human, as it can live outside the woman, even though she hasn't given birth yet.

and aard, what system? now i'm confuzzled

So you deny what it is in order to make yourself feel better about killing it. A fetus inside a human can only become human, therefore it IS human. Killing it as a fetus is no different from killing it in the crib. If it can become only one thing then in a sense it IS that thing, by simple logic it can be nothing else.

Any other logic is self-delusion to salve the conscience.

actually, logically, it isnt a human. the same way a cocoon is not a butterfly, but will be one.