It's Over It's Over It's Finally Over (Late)

2666 days after "mission accomplished" we pulled out of this lovely useless, purposeless war.

What did it cost? We know the numbers.

What did it cost my community?

Matt Maupin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Maupin

Son of one of our elementary teachers.

Sooo...

Was it worth it? How heavily does it way on the consciousness of those who had and those who do still, support it?

What did we accomplish? We created instability of course, we used military oppression rather than politics and green policies to uproot the dictator.

Ooooh war oooh war, we just can't seem to get rid of you, never more will we talk. It is just war war war. And now, we kill Afghani children! How would america react to a Muslim country doing that to get rid of the extremists here, those anti mosque ppl?

HYPOCRISY IS THE AMERICAN WAY!

Oh hey, Obama started keeping his promises....

Was it worth it?

Depends on who's side your looking at.

What did we accomplish?

More than what the public believes, And less than what the Government wanted.

How heavily does it way on the consciousness of those who had and those who do still, support it?

War effects everyone and everything, no matter what war.

...we used military oppression rather than politics and green policies to uproot the dictator.

Actually this whole thing started BEFORE George W. Bush took office, and started with his father. (whom was about as sharp as a bowling ball) The truth is, diplomacy only goes so far in certain circumstances. And probably talking to Saddam was probably like talking to a brick wall.

Ooooh war oooh war, we just can't seem to get rid of you, never more will we talk. It is just war war war. And now, we kill Afghani children! How would america react to a Muslim country doing that to get rid of the extremists here, those anti mosque ppl?

Trying to be poetic?

the reason why 'we' killed Afgani children was cause of the Afghans in the first place. They train kids who are 7+ sometimes even younger. Look at our soldiers' point of view when they saw a child who wasn't even 10 holding an AK-47, and having to shoot him because if he didn't; his team and his life would be in danger. Point is war has and will never make sense. Trying to understand people's thoughts on war and war itself will drive you insane. And to your teacher's son, i'm sorry to hear that. But remember no one is like 50 Cent, no one is bullet proof. People get killed in wars, thats a fact of life.

HYPOCRISY IS THE AMERICAN WAY!

Not just American, hypocrisy is everywhere you look. not just in America. Hypocrisy is the world's way.

So what have we learned? War sucks. People use other people to get what they want.

War has taken more than has given the world. War is not won or lost.

I'm sorry to hear about your teacher's son, but i also have a person close to me who is in Afghanistan. I hope he'll come back safely. I spent days thinking about what trouble he could get into and such. Knowing there is nothing i can do to help him. Truth is, everyone in this country has gained, and lost something in this war. War will never change really. We just got to live with it.

The member 'Squirrel-Licious' has done the following action : rolls the following

'd6' : 1

Squirrel-Licious wrote:

Was it worth it?

Depends on who's side your looking at.

What did we accomplish?

More than what the public believes, And less than what the Government wanted.

How heavily does it way on the consciousness of those who had and those who do still, support it?

War effects everyone and everything, no matter what war.

...we used military oppression rather than politics and green policies to uproot the dictator.

Actually this whole thing started BEFORE George W. Bush took office, and started with his father. (whom was about as sharp as a bowling ball) The truth is, diplomacy only goes so far in certain circumstances. And probably talking to Saddam was probably like talking to a brick wall.

Ooooh war oooh war, we just can't seem to get rid of you, never more will we talk. It is just war war war. And now, we kill Afghani children! How would america react to a Muslim country doing that to get rid of the extremists here, those anti mosque ppl?

Trying to be poetic?

the reason why 'we' killed Afgani children was cause of the Afghans in the first place. They train kids who are 7+ sometimes even younger. Look at our soldiers' point of view when they saw a child who wasn't even 10 holding an AK-47, and having to shoot him because if he didn't; his team and his life would be in danger. Point is war has and will never make sense. Trying to understand people's thoughts on war and war itself will drive you insane. And to your teacher's son, i'm sorry to hear that. But remember no one is like 50 Cent, no one is bullet proof. People get killed in wars, thats a fact of life.

HYPOCRISY IS THE AMERICAN WAY!

Not just American, hypocrisy is everywhere you look. not just in America. Hypocrisy is the world's way.

So what have we learned? War sucks. People use other people to get what they want.

War has taken more than has given the world. War is not won or lost.

I'm sorry to hear about your teacher's son, but i also have a person close to me who is in Afghanistan. I hope he'll come back safely. I spent days thinking about what trouble he could get into and such. Knowing there is nothing i can do to help him. Truth is, everyone in this country has gained, and lost something in this war. War will never change really. We just got to live with it.

LOL you rolled a die

What did we accomplish then?

We've uprooted countries' rulers before without war, we just couldn't do it then because of the politics

also, I'm talking about the children whom we kill on a regular basis who have no participation in OUR conflict.

yeah i got bored lol. Anyway:


We overthrew a dictator who was driving his country to hell. We gave them a new government. As for us however we accomplished nothing. We gave and gave, yet we lost more and more. War is like a double-edged sword. There are consequences to our decisions. As to the children part its what they did. No matter how immoral it is in some of our minds it was/is an evil that has forever plagued our minds. And think of it this way; what about our children who are 17 or older who are just still young going into a war that isn't their conflict either. They were drafted/recruited then shipped to another state and are trained to kill. War isn't free nor is it moral but you can't change a psycho's mind no matter how hard you try.

Quite honestly Iraq was far better off under Saddam for a while there because of the war that we brought

There are other ways to overthrow a dictator, we just decided that we love war.

not really. Reports of women being abused as well as children. no1 liked him really. Yes there were/is still followers of his regime. But like all dictators thats what they want people to think.

they were abused but there weren't as many dead

again, we choose war over other means

Oh ok, Squirrel, dont even say you went in Iraq to do good. SINCE America is in a rampage of taking out dictators, here is a list of countries as bad as Iraq, TENFOLD.

Sudan
Birmany
Palestine
Cuba
Colombia

So, you wanna go help these countries too? Cause they are far worse than Iraq was.

Dont try ever to acknowledge this war as taking out a terrorist dictator. Ever.He wasnt a terrorist, and there are many dictators in the world. You went in for the oil, and thats that. No more sugarcoating the truth when its so blatantly in the open. Just like you went for the oil when the first Bush was in office. I guess this is gonna be a Bush tradition family, eh? Whenever a member of that Texan stereotype family gets into office, they throw a celebration party in Iraq?

Sad.

And i love hipocrisy. There is no better weapon than to make your enemies and allies think differently from what you really are. I use it all the time. I only show myself to whom really deserves to see it.

Woah some hating on the great Mistress, America. Oil did have some part to do with it but we also helped the country. Plus we're not done with Iraq, 50,000 troops still left who are essentially obligated to help the Iraqi Army's with requests such as the firefight that occurred yesterday or the day before yesterday forgot which.
This war essentially is another Vietnam though, Combat win , political loss. Also war was the only way we were gonna take these War mongers down, have you ever read their training manual? It essentially is of a Nazi taste, anyone who is different, you simply have to be a foreigner and you're a target. There is no peace in their ''system''


"The young men returning to Allah realized that Islam is not just
performing rituals but a complete system: Religion and
government, worship and Jihad [holy war], ethics and dealing with
people, and the Koran and sword. The bitter situation that the
nation has reached is a result of its divergence from Allah's
course and his righteous law for all places and times. That
[bitter situation] came about as a result of its children's love
for the world, their loathing of death, and their abandonment of
Jihad [holy war]."

"These young men realized that an Islamic government would never
be established except by the bomb and rifle. Islam does not
coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it."

mmk, so the 100,000+ citizens killed since the beginning of our invasion has helped the country?

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/incidents/page1


There are different ways to take down political regimes, look at the south american countries during the cold war.

We could also have reduced dependence on oil, weakening the regime from within.

Besides, what is next, Cuba? Iran? North Korea? Like Dray said.

Also, Blind patriotism is not love of a country, read that article I posted before about journalism by Barbara Kingsolver.

Just because we don't like our leaders decisions, doesn't mean we hate a country and its people.

You're right, I guess the 500,000+ deaths attributed to Saddam is much better along with his oppressive regime. Unlike us instilling Hope in the people of Iraq(although there has been a lot of civilian deaths, war was never pretty), all of the world's problems (like these) cannot all be settled with words, blood must sometimes be shed for this such as our own and every country's civil war. Reducing our dependence is much more easily said than done, reality is we are dependent and it'll take a few decades to reduce our dependence by a major amount

If you read that number of 100,000+ it includes deaths from EVERYTHING, suicide bombers that have nothing to do with coalition forces are in that count along with everything else the Taliban,Al Qaeda does

Those are only the recorded deaths that we have caused,think about those that aren't recorded.

Also, guess who helped Saddam come to power? The U.S

Now, like I said, if not green policies, then we should have done the things we did to the south American leaders. That worked out well, but, was not politically wise.

Anyways, are you suggesting that the U.S go to war with every bad leader in the world? Because, again, as dray pointed out, their are a heck of a lot more leaders in the world worse than Saddam.

The US has had a hand in almost anything major in the world, the US is not(It is but whatever) the world's police so we don't have to intervene in everything. Also I think this is a little bit different than from the South American saga. There aren't the reasons to go to war with others as the Middle East, going to war in the ME was an opportunity at the time due to America's blood tunnel vision of 9/11

You are giving explanations Serv, not justifications. Everything cna be explained, few things are justified. Blood tunnel, Oil hunt, are not justifications. If the reason to go to middle east was an unjust one, that makes the war unjust. Sudan has deaths in the millions, MILLIONS. Did america go stick their flag theere? No. Its a waste of troops. Even thou the Sudanese forces are MUCH weaker than the Iraqi forces fought or the Al Qaeda and Taliban forces. Yeah you took out a dictator. Congratulations. Its only gonna take a bit until the Talibans take over that government too.

BOTTOM LINE, The war did more harm than good.

PS: No big hatred for the mistress, hatred for the action. I disliked what you and Lay did back awhile with admin remember? But i like you both nonetheless.

All wars are unjust. Your killing people. Tell me that isn't unjust. psssh

Its only gonna take a bit until the Talibans take over that government too.

Not my problem. Thats up to my government. I see your point it was worthless but ALL wars are worthless.

@Dray: I don't seem to recall what part I had in it O:

All wars aren't worthless, there are actually things worth dieing for. Just the wars after WW2 exactly hasn't been clear on why they've been fought about besides the US protecting/being paranoid about it's own interest.( US as the government, not the backing of the people such as in WW2 and those before)

Last rightful and just war was WW2. Ever since...any war has a second reasons as to why they happen, and never really worth their existence. Turning a country apart should be done with a reaaally heavy reason.