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Lance Armstrong

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Lance Armstrong - Page 2 Empty Re: Lance Armstrong

Post by Aragorn Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:09 pm

He did stand up for himself. He stood up for himself for 20 years...Like it said in the things my Dad posted...He did fight for himself.
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Lance Armstrong - Page 2 Empty Re: Lance Armstrong

Post by Ptolemy Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:37 pm

I am going to post this again on the assumption that you didn't read any of it. Each of these say there is no 'credible' evidence. just the testimony of a disgraced racer and team mate and others that have immunity and anonymity. Our justice system gives us the opportunity to directly confront our accusers. This is not our justice system. When the rubber meets the road, i do not know either, but from this evidence, it does not look like there are any other basis besides a vendetta against someone that is successful.


Ptolemy wrote:http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/08/we-may-never-know-if-lance-armstrong-doped/261562/
http://www.nesn.com/2010/05/floyd-landis-asked-to-prove-allegations-lance-armstrong-doped.html
http://www.localnews8.com/sports/Lance-Armstrong-fights-for-his-legacy/-/308186/16225680/-/item/2/-/x02qw4/-/index.html

There is no proof besides that he decided it was not worth it.

August 20, 2012: Judge Sparks wrote: The court "cannot interfere" in the case.

"The Court finds they are best resolved through the well-established system of international arbitration, by those with expertise in the field, rather than by the unilateral edict of a single nation's courts," said Sparks, before admitting there may be a basis for some of Armstrong's concerns.

"USADA's conduct raises serious questions about whether its real interest in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives."

And look... A quote from a CNN report, the ONLY source you said you would believe...

By Alex Bath for CNN wrote:"Lance has passed nearly 500 tests over 20 years of competition," declared spokesman Mark Fabiani in response to allegations from disgraced former teammate Tyler Hamilton -- who has admitted taking performance-enhancing drugs during his career...

The USADA alleges that Armstrong took steroids throughout his career, and says it has testimony from former teammates to support the charges. The organization has refused to reveal who has provided the evidence.

"A significant number of Armstrong's former teammates, in return for immunity or preferential treatment from USADA, have testified about doping activities that they participated in or witnessed," Flax told CNN.

"Some of them, like Floyd Landis, are people who have made public accusations in the past...

Landis, a rider with the USPS team from 2002 to 2004, has publicly claimed that he saw Armstrong using blood transfusions to increase the level of oxygen-carrying red blood cells in his system, as well as taking the blood-boosting drug EPO.

In 2006, Landis became the first person other than Armstrong to win the Tour, but was stripped of the title for failing a drugs test. The disgraced cyclist has even gone as far as accusing Armstrong and Bruyneel of paying the International Cycling Union (UCI) to cover up a positive test in 2002.

Armstrong dismissed the charges, and accused his former colleague of threatening riders with drug allegations...

What is Armstrong's defense?

The main thrust of Armstrong's defense is that he is the victim of a witch hunt by the USADA.

"Though USADA claims it has collected at least 10 witnesses to these events, it refuses to name a single one or even to identify what they will say," argues Armstrong's legal team, in a response to the charges published on the cyclist's website.

"USADA also claims that Mr. Armstrong committed doping violations for years, but cannot produce a single positive test result to corroborate this claim.

"Curiously, in the face of an alleged conspiracy involving four separate teams of cyclists over two decades, USADA has decided to charge only a single rider: Lance Armstrong."

Armstrong has also made his feelings clear about the USADA's offers of immunity to his his former colleagues.

"So let me get this straight... come in and tell them exactly what they wanted to hear and you get complete immunity AND anonymity? I never got that offer. This isn't about Tygart wanting to clean up cycling; rather it's just a plain ol' selective prosecution that reeks of vendetta," Armstrong declared on his Twitter account...


TLDR; USADA says they have proof but nothing that will stand in court, but they do have deeper pockets and more tenacity than Lance Armstrong. US Federal Judge thinks the motives of the USADA are less than nobel but does not think he has the authority to interfere.
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Post by Aardvark Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:46 am

I read it, you may not like it but that's how the system works, witness testimony in these numbers is considered credible evidence so long as no conflict of interest is found. My point still stands, at the point they took the titles away the accusation had been out there for a reasonable amount of time with no denial, if he's fighting for himself NOW then I'll wait to see what comes to light, like I said.
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Post by Dray The Fingerless Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:52 am

Aardvark wrote:I read it, you may not like it but that's how the system works, witness testimony in these numbers is considered credible evidence so long as no conflict of interest is found. My point still stands, at the point they took the titles away the accusation had been out there for a reasonable amount of time with no denial, if he's fighting for himself NOW then I'll wait to see what comes to light, like I said.

The problem isnt witness imunity, its witness anonimacy. No justice system credible allows for this, because you have to be able to fight back any accusations. By hiding witnesses, they do not allow those witnesses to be counter interrogated, leaving for a biased and unsubstantial testimony, rendering it useless. It becomes basically sophism, and if i were given super powers, sophists would be tortured every day. The only reason witnesses are HIDDEN, is for their own safety. Even then, they are not left anonymous, just whereabouts hidden.
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Lance Armstrong - Page 2 Empty Re: Lance Armstrong

Post by Aardvark Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:13 am

I admit the witness animosity bugs me too, but the law says you have the right to face your accuser, as I understand it until legal action occurs and the defendant opts to defend they don't have to actually produce the witnesses. I might be wrong, I admit the fine print in the U.S. legal system is beyond my full comprehension.
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Post by Dray The Fingerless Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:51 pm

Has nothing to do with US System, its how the world works. The decent one. Also i dont care about Armstrong, same to me as any sports stars. Overvalued, not that special.
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Lance Armstrong - Page 2 Empty Re: Lance Armstrong

Post by Ptolemy Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:38 am

so in the world at large you do not get to face your accuser in court?

Just wondering cause i do not know
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