Can you....?

So I'm bored, I'm gonna try a mixed forum game and debate topic and see how it goes. The rules of the forum still apply, you must keep on-topic, but this time the topic will change frequently. So here are the rules:

A person starts a debate with a question that must be phrased with the words, "Can you". After this person makes a question the next person must state their opinion on it to start their debate and label their post with the words "Reply #1". The next person to post must contest this opinion and label their post "Reply #2" and this debate will keep going(any number of people can be involved) until there are ten replies(each one must be numbered in the order in which they were posted so Reply #3 comes before Reply #4 and you keep counting for each one until you reach Reply #10). After the tenth reply you must drop the current debate and start a new one, so the next person to post starts a different debate phrased with the words, "Can you" and from there you start over again and do Reply #1 - Reply #10. After that's done you make another debate topic and start the process again.

You may not continue a debate topic past Reply #10, and each post must be on topic and numbered correctly. You cannot bring up the same topic twice. If you are the one posting the question then you must post only the question and not your personal opinion on it until someone else has stated their opinion in Reply #1.

Examples of "Can you" debate topics would be: "Can you be white and black?" "Can you fight without violence?" "Can you ever truly be unique?"

Well that's the idea, now I'll see if anyone can decipher the rules for this thread and see if anyone is actually interested.

So to kick this off: "Can you be racist against your own ethnicity?"

Reply #2(As per rules I'll state an opposing argument even though I may not be against it personally)

No you can't. Racism is believing someone is fallible or evil because of their ethnicity. So being racist against your own race means you believe their fallible, which means you believe anything you do is fallible and therefore can be incorrect. Not to mention that the supposition means you believe yourself that fallible and evil. It is against human nature to self-depreciate, humans want to make themselves feel better and believing your life is unchangeable because of such trivial matters is the exact opposite of up-lifting. I believe it is possible to view your race or the tendencies of an area to have some self-destructive habits, but not out-right racism.

(Yes Cog you've got it right so far.)

Reply number 3: I absolutely hate the human race, even thou i a human. Therefore, it is perfectly possible to be white and hate my own race, because you are hating the race, not individuals. This is without mentioning people who actually hate themselves and are 100% capable of self-racism.

PS: IF YOURE FUCKING BORED, HOW ABOUT DISCUSSING DOAJ A BIT AND WRITTING A SEGMENT?

reply 4:

i do believe its possible to be racist against your own race... hitler did it didn't he?

Reply #5

In order to be racist you must believe a race fallible, so you must also believe a race superior. If you hate humanity then you have nothing you this is superior to the fallibility you perceive so you are not racist you are nihilist. But to be truly racist against your own ethnicity takes any joy or up-lifting experience out of your life, and suicide becomes the only relief. So I suppose a more specific question would if you can life with yourself if you are racist to your own ethnicity?

Hitler made a distinction, he did not believe himself fallible, he believed Jews and those who supported them to be fallible.

Reply number 6

I used my hate for humanity as a comparable example that i can hate sth i am a part of. I was by no way saying that me hating humans is racist, nor is it nihilistic, because i only hate humanity as a race, but i do find hope and joy in other things in the world, nor do i hate myself. Also to hate your own race does not mean you have a suicidal tendency. Racism is not absolute, so you have many levels of hate and prejudice, sometimes its unbearable oter times its bearable.

Reply 7:

I believe you can be in a certain way. In any race there will be good and bad people. I don't think anyone truly likes the bad people of their race, so you can be racist against your own race to some extent.

Reply Numero Ocho (Number Eight):

Racism against your own ethnicity... hmmm well my opinion is racism against your own race is ok at times since your making fun of yourself really. Unless its done through hatred. Then its considered self hatred. I make fun of my own ethnic backround because i feel comfortable with making fun of myself. Not that i hate myself.

Reply # 9

To me there's a difference between being enlightened as to humanity and tendencies and being racist. You can notice certain tendencies an ethnic group exhibits more then others without being racist, unless we call just about every statistician racist. Racism is a little different, race will always color your judgments no matter how tolerant or non-judgmental you claim to be, but a racist lets this dominate their judgment.

Reply: #10

Yes, all you have to be able to do is think one race is superior.

(Reminder, the Rules state the person posting AFTER Reply #10 posts the question)

Great, now I can ask my question.

Can you be a heroic villain?

Answer number 1: Yes. all heros are not totally good they have or had some dark secrets that label them as a heroic villain comic book wise look at the punisher.

Aardvark wrote:(Reminder, the Rules state the person posting AFTER Reply #10 posts the question)

actually it says after the tenth reply, that was the tenth reply, so your directions can be read two ways

Infracted Nihil, OT.

Reply 3: You can definitely be a heroic villain. 3 words: Dukes of Hazzard. lol

Reply no #4:

A Hero is something/someone fighting for the good, aight? But what decides what's good or not?
It's quite impossible to decide what actions are good or not since you can always look at stuff in different angles and different views.

I believe there are Heroic Villains and Villaniac Heroes. Yes I made that word up. I'm hardcore like that.

5> No you cannot be heroic and a villain. If you are a villain with people who rely on you then you are actually a hero to some (and maybe a villain to others but then your deeds would be villainous to them and heroic to the others) So it all depends on whos view you are looking from, but no one would consider the hero/villains deeds villainous/heroic if they are on the opposite side of the fence thus a villain cannot be heroic. (Its all semantics)

reply 6
would be a hard row to hoe i think. if you look at a movie like the Watchmen i think there were several of them that had severe character flaws but, in many cases, their actions were Heroic. Also a hero needs a nemesis almost by definition so i would submit that all heroes are villainous depending on your point of view. hero to those he/she helps and a villain to those he fights against.

Reply #7

A hero is one who protects ethical or legal concepts from those who wish to disobey ethical or legal concepts. Villains are those they fight who wish to disobey ethical or legal concepts. On issues with which the government is on the ethical side, such as stopping someone from murdering another person, then there is a clear cut definition of who is a hero and who is a villain. This definition is impossible to bypass because both are in agreement and as such conflicting makes you a villain. Where the problem comes in is when what's legal and what's ethical are at odds. In this case there is no such thing as a villain or hero because being on either side means you are going against the established authority or your own conscience.

So my opinion is this: No you cannot be both, they are clear cut descriptions that conflict, if there is ever a question then they cease to be heroes or villains and become soldiers fighting for a cause.

Reply number 8

A hero and villain definition is not connected to government or any other ruling body, or any body for that matter. the only thing needed in hero and villain definition is a set of ethical or lawful parameters that a hero tries to keep and a villain tries to destroy. However, in the world, there are many diferences in ethics and laws, and they coexist, so it is more than possible for a hero to keep some ethics and be a hero to the people who are for those ethics, but be a villain to people who think those ethics are wrong. EG: For Al Qaeda members, Bin Laden is a hero, but he is a villain to other people.
For those saying that the fact that in a certain view, a hero cannot be also a villain, they are true in saying that, but the question was can a hero be a villain too, and the answer is yes, they can. THERE ARE SITUATIONS where they cant be, but all you need is for ONE situation to acknowledge this possibility. If you say "can a lightning fall on earth right now?", there will be places on earth where it wont fall due to the electric charge on the area or because there is no weather for it, but at least SOMEWHERE on earth there is that possibility, thus the answer to it is yes. The same applies to this question, while if you view it from one person view, it is impossible to have a hero/villain, if you view it from all people, if you pull yourself out of those views and see all of them in conjunction, then you can see that some people see someone as a hero, while others see him as a villain.

Reply 9:

Heroes can be whoever the author intends them to be, we see this case in two famous distopian novels, 1984 and Brave New World.

As for a heroic villain, that is a little bit of a paradox don't you think? I mean, how can you be a villain and a hero at the same time from the same perspective. You can be a hero, a villain, or neutral challenged character, who I would say, does good and bad things, repulsing us.

a heroic villain may only exist in a bi-polar character.

Reply 10

The question was can someone be a hero and a villain? And they can, in different perspectives and even in different times.