Re: What Person do you think had the most influence on history?

by **Champion** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:07 am

Aragorn are you serious? I will go ahead and let you reread your reply before even commenting on it.

Aragorn wrote:Because thats contradictory. If you believe he didn't exist, then how was he influential. Now the teachings is different but if you don't believe in God then you don't believe in his teachings. Thats like believing in a painting but not the painter who painted it.

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:08 am

Enlighten me because I am obviously missing it.

by **Champion** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:10 am

What you said is like saying we cannot discuss gravity because we do not see it. Or I cannot discuss nazism because I am not a nazi. Or I cannot discuss love because I am not in love. etc etc.

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:12 am

No. My argument is your belief in it. Has nothing to do with being it, if I am using love as an example. You can discuss love all you want, but if you don't believe in it then everything it does and influence, you also don't believe in because you don't believe in love itself. See the difference?

by **Champion** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:13 am

No I don't. You are insulting me by telling me I cannot see the influence of God in history and the world as an outside observer because I do not believe in him. That is a MAJOR and obvious logical fallacy. hell I think its so obvious they do not even have a name for that fallacy lol

by **Thing** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:15 am

You might not believe in a God, but that doesn't mean don't you acknowledge the things done in his name, or people's belief in him.

by **Aureus** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:16 am

Ik wat ur saying. But that is more ignorance than non belief imo. If some1 doesnt believe in God, than that belief has not affected them directly. But, fortunately the world isn't about one person, meaning, that if I go crazy from a brainwashing and murder ur dog, it will affect u, even though YOU weren't brainwashed (All for the sake of example ofc. I felt bad typing family since Ptol is here xd

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:17 am

How is that a fallacy? If you believe in something then you believe in what it does. Thats logic. Its illogical to think that you believe in the work of something you don't believe in. If you don't believe in something, you don't believe in its work. Back to to the painter. If you don't believe Picaso existed, you don't believe in the paintings he painted. You witnessing the paintings with your own eyes disproves that he didn't exist, that ends that fallacy.

by **Aureus** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:21 am

Are u inferring God is real cuz i saw a Bible =o

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:22 am

I am inferring that if you see the works of the person, say Picaso, and you don't believe he exists, then your belief has been shot down because he obviously exists because he painted a painting =o

by **Aureus** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:23 am

Master CoG wrote:Are u inferring God is real cuz i saw a Bible =o

by **Champion** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:24 am

Aragorn dude.. .lets get back to the original point here...

"God is the most influential person in history"

Me... an outside observer. Student of history, lover of culture can EASILY see how that statement is true. I do not need to believe that he exists to see the effects of his worship on the earth. He does not even need to be real. Hell, dont Christians believe that they have the one true god and all other gods are false? Then if you do not believe in those other gods, you are saying that you cannot see how they influence the world? Since you are not a muslim you cannot see the influence of islam? This makes no sense and I am actually dumbfounded as to how to get this across in simpler terms.

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:26 am

Ah. I see my error now. Took me awhile but I see it. My apologies for continuing in the wrong.

by **Aureus** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:28 am

No problem Very Happy

by **Champion** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:35 am

Well thank you for admitting it. I just think you got confused on the issue at hand. was really hoping you would not continue arguing even though you realized that thanks Razz

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:36 am

Of course. I figure if you continue to argue a point you have been proven wrong on, it makes you look like an idiot and admitting you're goes much farther anyway.

by **Thing** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:37 am

Now that that's over with, who do you think is the most influential person?

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:42 am

Hmmm I dunno tbh. There are a lot of influential people in many different fields of life. Politically, George Washington paved the way as the first President under the Constitution. Musically, well thats a huge list I don't care to go through. In the manner of science, thats a long list too but Einstein is up there even though his theories were mostly flawed, they were well beyond his time. Gallileo was also influential with telescope, though he didn't invent it.

So I'll take the least path here and say Tolkien. He is responsible for most of the basic concepts for todays fantasy, adventure and sci fi productions of entertainment. He learned most of it from the author of Beowulf, which is still unknown, but that doesn't steer away from the fact that a lot of people owe their base ideas for a lot of the previous listed generes of entertainment to Tolkien. Those basic principles have entertained us for years. Hats off to you bro. Btw, its not bias either. Lewis did a great deal as well but Lewis studied under Tolkien. Ah. I love finding a use for my college education Very Happy

by **Aureus** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:45 am

Aragorn wrote:Gallileo was also influential with telescope

the*

And I'm only in a public high school...

Bitch Razz

jk

by **Dray The Fingerless** Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:35 am

I dont understand why you call Einstein's theories flawed, when most of them are used to this day. If you were looking for someone in science who has never been rectified in its theories, lol you got a surprise coming for you.

Also, if anything, id go for Jules Verne before going Tolkien. Early sci fi designs, early scientific and mechanical inventions, much like Da Vinci, created sth that would in later years be invented for real. All while making the basis for the word 'epic' in literature.

by **Champion** Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:46 am

Aragorn wrote:Of course. I figure if you continue to argue a point you have been proven wrong on, it makes you look like an idiot and admitting you're goes much farther anyway.

That just shows you are not only intelligent but rational, a virtue in VERY short supply on the internet and even real life.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:57 am

I said one word. and a 3 page discussion emerged. i am fucking awesome.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:00 am

And yes Dan, i believe in...God, to put it in layman's terms. Just not the way you do. Different way, highly different.

by **Aragorn** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:19 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:I dont understand why you call Einstein's theories flawed, when most of them are used to this day. If you were looking for someone in science who has never been rectified in its theories, lol you got a surprise coming for you.

Also, if anything, id go for Jules Verne before going Tolkien. Early sci fi designs, early scientific and mechanical inventions, much like Da Vinci, created sth that would in later years be invented for real. All while making the basis for the word 'epic' in literature.

I didn't mean all his theories. Some of them are flawed though ahead of his time. Jules Verne is a good choice as well. I admit I am rather ignorant in his work. I have a big book that has like 3 or 4 of his novels that I've read but I've just breezed through them. Didn't actually read them.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:39 pm

I highly advise Misterious Island. But you need to read Twenty Thousand Leagues so you can have some context. Also, Journey to Center of the Earth, no movie has ever really given it a valid adaptation. You need to read the real deal. Overall, his adventures are really captivating.

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