Exilie Act quick opinion only poll - Poll

im too lazy to debate in public chat with kami. reopening discussion on the previous thread here for a quick poll of opinions on the exile act and the arguments both kami and i have. if you truly believe that one of us is wrong and the other is right then please do say so. if you believe some points and not others, please say so as well. do not include any type of remark that can potential be offensive to Master Cog. for reference, check this thread.
https://jvsclan.darkbb.com/sith-academy-f7/i-think-it-was-two-weeks-accepted-t2206-10.htm#46852

from what i see in our debate was that there was going to be some kind of major conflict between us no matter what we bring to the table. i sent kami a pming regarding this and some other issues, however, for the time being, id like to focus on this one, the Exile Act. After reading both sides, I'd like to what you guys think is right and wrong, and what may be good to add and what should be changed or removed.

I won't take offense if you disagree with me, as I don't think Layfon will take offense, but I'd also like that, when you post, you clarify why you believe it so there will be less chance this devolves into argument or misunderstanding.

I think Kami is right. You have a point when you say about this loop hole of changing opinions, but it only applies before the Exile's two weeks are done and he applies to a faction. After he applies, you cant do anything. Ill also propose some adjustements for when someone kicks someone off their faction.

I saw a few major hoopholes and have to agree with lay, mainly because; the act never clearly stated the conditions of which the ranks had to be started at, a revision to iron out the details and make it less flexible would be required in my opinion.

lay's reasoning only works before the exile time is finished and before the exile applies to a faction. but ill be working on these holes.

there are some loopholes that were brought to light... i think it would be good to get those closed up... but you both had good points... thats pretty much all i have to say on the subject

anyways, now that im awake this makes more sense to me, well, atleast the last part kami was trying to explain does. but to quickly point out what you said dray, it has to be one or the other, can the decision be made to overturn the previous DL's decision before there time is up, or before they post? in this situation its gotta be one or the other, for the sake of making it similar, id go with before the time is up.

before they post, since he can be remaining in Exile in protest against the decision. if he applies, its a sign that he accepted his penalty. so yeah, before he applies to a faction.

alrighty makes sense to me.

well, what they're saying dist is that the exile admitted his punishment and so i cant do anything about it. granted i did bring a bunch of things to light, however i was still half dead last night when i was talking to kami so i was pulling counter arguments out of thin air that only made logical sense. =o all though still in my defense, the charter itself didnt say any of what dray and kami just explained in simpler terms finally. =o

Just wondering how exiles can not admit their punishment? I mean it's not like they can do anything against it, can't they?

Exiles are FORCED into exile, and they are FORCED to go thru rankings when they are re accepted. the only thing they arent FORCED to do is reapply to the faction that denied them entrance. mind you, if someone leaves jedi, and is denied in sith, they can go back to jedi after 2 weeks in exile, or they can remain exiled undetermined time(falling in the same category as FS fall, where i am their 'defacto faction leader' )

He became an exile. he went two weeks as exile, he reapplied as a sith, and was readmitted. up until the part where he applies to sith, you are right. there are guidelines missing for certain events such as the DL changing his mind. but after he applies, it is fucking there.

"If accepted from Faction Probation(GJ/DC) the person in question will be forced to work their way up from the bottom of the ranks, Initiate for those seeking Jedi, Disciple for those seeking Sith, and will not be able to resume their previous rank or equivalent."

That is the statement that says he has to go thru ranks. Once he applied and was accepted, he can no longer run away from it. Before he applied, sure, you could say: "Cog, you can come in sith after all. I changed my mind, your not exiled anymore." and he could go in sith and you could do what you want with him, because in that case, there is no actual procedure for it.

Thing is thats not what happened. Two weeks passed, he applied, you accepted. end of story. THIS event IS in the charter. Other cases arent, but this one is, and it is the one that ocurred. Kami is right. He has to go thru all ranks, as stated in the Charter when something like this occurs.

Ok, so now that i understand this all, what you are saying is that if i exile him and then reconsider i can bring him in normally and put him where i want too right? according to the act, he will now be placed as a DC and after which if i officially admit him will i need to start him at the lowest rank. so what you just said to me right now and im looking at it is,

"If accepted from Faction Probation(GJ/DC) the person in question will be forced to work their way up from the bottom of the ranks, Initiate for those seeking Jedi, Disciple for those seeking Sith, and will not be able to resume their previous rank or equivalent."

this is faction probation right? so this is when he is accepted from a DC into the faction. so, by reading this carfully i have come to the conclusion that if i exile him again after his faction probation time is up, meaning his next 2 weeks as a DC, and then reconsider, i can put him where i want.

what i accepted was yes his exile time was over, i have not actually accepted him fully into the sith for he is now only a DC. So as long as i dont accept him from DC and exile him, then repeal the exile, i can place him where i want. thx for the heads up dray.

No, because he was in the Sith, then his only rank equivalent would be whatever he attained in Sith. Look up the Faction Probation Act.

It was too late because Cog had already decided to apply to a faction and was accepted. He could overturn the decision if it was prior to the application.

No1 told me that O_o

EDIT: All I heard was Rejected EX tags =D

Layfon wrote:Ok, so now that i understand this all, what you are saying is that if i exile him and then reconsider i can bring him in normally and put him where i want too right? according to the act, he will now be placed as a DC and after which if i officially admit him will i need to start him at the lowest rank. so what you just said to me right now and im looking at it is,

"If accepted from Faction Probation(GJ/DC) the person in question will be forced to work their way up from the bottom of the ranks, Initiate for those seeking Jedi, Disciple for those seeking Sith, and will not be able to resume their previous rank or equivalent."

this is faction probation right? so this is when he is accepted from a DC into the faction. so, by reading this carfully i have come to the conclusion that if i exile him again after his faction probation time is up, meaning his next 2 weeks as a DC, and then reconsider, i can put him where i want.

what i accepted was yes his exile time was over, i have not actually accepted him fully into the sith for he is now only a DC. So as long as i dont accept him from DC and exile him, then repeal the exile, i can place him where i want. thx for the heads up dray.

actually, once he is accepted into probation, he is technically in the sith. you can actually reject someone after their 2 weeks as DC, and make them redo the probation time. Cog was rejected on application, meaning he had to go to the Exile group. when you accept him in the DC, he goes thru the proper channels of ranking.

and yes, you could just wait for him to end DC, reject him, change your mind, and readmit him into his old position. you seem to forget taht as DL, you can play with ranks as you please. you can make any SO into a DJ, a SL into an SM, so on so forth. this what you are proposing is part of the big gap that remains in the Exile rank, wich can be fixed by just adding "when rejected, the exile must Remain exile for 2 weeks, and the decision to exile him is irrevocable. Once he is made exile, the faction leader can no longer back up his words." or we can "once he is rejected, he must go into exile. If the faction leader changes his mind, he cna overrule his decision, and, should the exilee accept, be admited into the faction thru the normal procedures of faction switching."

if lay accepts him in, then exiles him, it doesnt fall under anth in the charter. ive proposed to emend that, since the same happened with Nihil, when he was exiled from the jedi. there is nothing in the charter for when this happens.

He couldn't give Cog a rank though, since he wouldn't be transferring from Jedi anymore, therefore none of the rank equivalents stand.

hence why exiles climb up the tree.