Why the Institutionalized Deity is a logical blunder

Mmhmm, and then expand that reasoning that some may be more advanced, or may not even exist in the same dimensions we do. Further expand that they may have taken an interest in Earth at some point for any number of reasons, or even that all we are is an experiment by another culture, like we have experiments with rats and such.

Uh... I think we would have caught on to that more than 100,000 years ago if that was happening.

Also, I don't believe in other dimensions, only the ones that exist in our universe, which is the only universe.

I like to think that I will head the counter-revolutionary movement in physics to end stuff like that, of course, it has been going on wtf look at me babbling.

Really? Supposedly we didn't notice Evolution for a couple thousand millenia....

The problem is Nihil, you assume no one can be smarter then our scientists, that no one could possibly exceed our level of thought when we can't even navigate a probe through our own solar system with any reliability.

And I love that you deny dimensions. You're essentially saying you don't believe in Science because you don't believe in the founding principles of the 1st-5th dimensions in space-time. Unless of course, you made the classic mistake of assuming I meant "Alternate Realities"....

First off aard, its funny you use that argument against me when I use it against you for evolution and global warming.

Its actually a faction of physicists that believe that if someone had to introduce 20 other dimensions for their theory to work, it doesn't necessarily even mean its rational.

When I say dimensions, I say that there are those that we experience, and, I'm sure, that there are a few we don't experience, but having 20 dimensions is irrational.

I'm talking about the normal 5 of space-time, and like it or not, they do exist.

Aardvark wrote: This makes a Deity complex a little out of place in my opinion, it breaks from the usual talk-out-your-ass-to-get-more-attention style characterized by history.

IMHO Christianity is a good example of this. To me Christianity is a selfish religion. I mean here we have God an omnipotent and omniscient being, who according to Christianity spends his time looking out for US, and trying to get us to love him. Don't you think that if such a deity existed he would be off doing other shit with his never ending powers other than wanting to keep us out of trouble? Why is it about us?

Also about the greek gods, roman gods, hindu gods, and all other gods, and which one(s) are the true one(s). Well this is one of my favorite quotes.

I contend we are both atheists, I just believe
in one fewer god than you do. When you
understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I
dismiss yours.
-Stephen F Roberts

And no i am not atheist. I am agnostic

rep for awesome quote

also aard, If a scientist needs to make it 11 dimensions for an idea to work, then there is something wrong, if I could find the article I would show, actually, I'll ask the school librarian for information regarding it.

well aard, the fact we devoid certain events from our figure is easily to explain. we have been the center of attention of our own views, ever since we existed. we were the center of universe, and even when we created beings more powerful then us, we still made us the center of THEIR attention. we created gods, becuz as arrogant and self indulging we might be, we ARENT omnipowerful. there are things we CANT control. to explain these things, they must be controled by some force MORE powerful then us. the fact that these events out of our reach can be just events of nature is....insulting. us humans outpowered by unconscious forces? preposterous! there must be a bearded old man behind them!

I still find the consistency of a God complex out of the ordinary. You would think at least one culture would chalk it up to something besides all-powerful gods. To me it's too illogical to be a psychological effect, it's a pattern and the wide difference in cultures with the same recurring thought is what makes me believe this.

And Nihil, are you actually arguing AGAINST alternative thought? It's a possible explanation, and the fact that we can use technology to simulate dimensions greater then the one we live in points to the fact that there may be more then we experience. You should never disregard a line of thought that shows some merit, otherwise the whole theory of Evolution would never have come about.

Aard, weren't ppl saying they were gods in ancient times? Idk j/w

To my knowledge, we haven't simulated any dimensions other than the ones we perceive, this line of thought you are talking about doesn't show merit, it just shows that people are attempting to make their theories work for such new things as singularities and event horizons etc. because they can't think of another way, I'm not discrediting it like you are holding, rather, I'm saying that I don't believe that it is right, and that I am determined to find another way.

so how is THAT disregarding a line of thought, according to your point of view, we should follow any thought that holds a nugget of merit, and who knows where we would be, probably not even on the moon. Besides, it hasn't technically become in terms of a scientific theory, any of these, because a theory basically has to be an explanation of something that provides consistent results that we can generalize and answer questions correctly, things like string theory haven't produced that.

any ways

if someone grows up in a third world country, how would they know about jesus or vishnu? that is just another paradox of all religions, that, basically, if you don't know about it, you are damned forever, because you haven't prayed to the right god because you didn't know about him, precisely as a result of living in a low technology and information environment, therefore, any god must not be fair and benevolent.



BTW

I'm still bothered that Ptol and Ara haven't posted here, Dist has, but no one else who is religious in this sense has, besides him.

Another thing, just to put it out there, I think that all prophets of religions conveyed a message of the same god, but just as to how that person had interpreted them.

We can simulate the fourth dimension with ease. You can look it up if you don't believe me.

And yes, we should follow any line of thought that shows merit. If we do not then one cannot call it Science. By disregarding a line of thought, we dismiss anything it could give us.

wut? lol, I meant stuff beyond that dimension, we didn't make up the fourth dimension, it was always there.

oh ya

reductioadabsurdum

monkeys are humans

this is a line of thought, shall we devote our time and energy to following it? Or dismiss, after all, we do share 99% of our DNA

Ah, but you forget, that line of thought is what spurred Evolution.

And if there is one dimension we know exists, but cannot experience, then why do you assume it is the only one?

we experience 4 dimensions aard, not just three also

He postulated an idea, other scientists doubted it, he came up with more than just empirical evidence, it was then scientifically believable, though many refused to believe it, this is different though, we don't know if these dimensions exist and they only say they exist to make up for the wholes in their ideas to make them work

So you're saying we give up all lines of thought that could ever lead to proof of other dimensions because you don't like it? There was no evidence to Evolution until someone discovered it. By your logic, since none existed when he started he should have just abandoned the idea entirely.

Because a blind man cannot see doesn't mean he believes in only four senses. Just because we have five doesn't mean we won't develop a sixth. The same goes for dimensions in space-time.

Let's take an algebra proof and apply it to theoretical thought: What you do to one side of the equation you have to do to the other. This is a basic proof in algebra, and it has always shown me one thing in science: In order to experience something, you must also be able to not experience it. Now take this to your senses. You can experience sight, you can also not experience, people are born without the sense, and you can also be blinded in life. Make sense? Extend it further. We have the ability to experience time and matter, therefore there should also be possible to not experience time or matter. As of yet we have not discovered a way to do this, that does not mean there is no way to be absent of these sense. In other words, dimensional time-space, a way to take our body beyond what is, to take away a sense by removing one's self from the parameters that allow you to sense it.

And I'm not talking about the one dimension of Relativity Nihil. Go look up Miegakure and you'll see what I mean.

Aardvark wrote:I still find the consistency of a God complex out of the ordinary. You would think at least one culture would chalk it up to something besides all-powerful gods. To me it's too illogical to be a psychological effect, it's a pattern and the wide difference in cultures with the same recurring thought is what makes me believe this.

And Nihil, are you actually arguing AGAINST alternative thought? It's a possible explanation, and the fact that we can use technology to simulate dimensions greater then the one we live in points to the fact that there may be more then we experience. You should never disregard a line of thought that shows some merit, otherwise the whole theory of Evolution would never have come about.

the god complex is being narrowed down here. the wide belief is that humans attribute phenomenons out of their grasp in explanation to a being that is more powerful and knows more then us. sometimes, MANY beings as in greeks and egyptians. the one God idea is easy to explain. It simply caught on. The same way clothes caught on. The same way cooking caught on. Sure these two last ones came way before the God idea, but they follow the same pattern. Here is something that can help us in our lives as rational beings. Its called...a meme.

Miegakure is four dimensional, those are the dimensions already established by relativity.

Also, I never said that we couldn't experience matter or time, I mean, look at the twin paradox, that is proof of not experiencing time, in a sense, because space and time are, all together, a single entity. I'm talking about having 11 dimensions to justify a theory, thats bull. thats what i'm talking about.