We need to beat some sense into this Pope xD

Yes there's SOME oppression in any race. Black people are still sometimes fired for not being reputable, Mexicans can be oppressed if they aren't a full citizen yet. All groups have oppression to a certain extent, but if blacks and mexicans aren't complaining anymore, because the majority of people have accepted them, then why should gays complain when many have it EASIER then other groups.

And don't give me that bullshit about being polite, I've been insulted for my diabetes when there was absolutely nothing I could have done to prevent it by DOCTORS who claim to be politically correct. I shrug it off because I have facts on my side and I could flatten them if so inclined, but I'm like that because of experience, not all diabetics are. So guess what people tell diabetics who are offended at insults? I'll give you a hint, it's 3 words: Get over it. I'm a diabetic, I can be refused a job because I need constant medication to live, that's a hell of a lot worse then a gay man not being able to be a deacon for the Roman Catholic church.

As for the Bible, no I cannot site Jesus saying it was specifically wrong to be gay, but I can site God. It's not being who you are, it's a choice, being who you are is following the human drive which is to have sex with the opposite sex to perpetuate the species. And I don't see you defending Pedophiles who have "urges" to have sex with small children, so if that's a choice, then isn't sexuality itself a choice, meaning homosexuality? In religion it's a sin to do wrong when you KNOW it's wrong, and what is wrong is listed in religious texts.

Oh just fuck this, you don't ever listen I have no idea why I debate with you.

if its a choice, does that mean that people should be damned if they buy a minifridge rather than a regular refridgerator, if being homosexual doesn't hurt anyone, and as any new testament scholar can point out, jesus says nothing about homosexuality, don't forget the greeks and romans practiced this, then why should people be afraid of others.


also this "Gay media" you keep citing, where can i find it, because i don't find it on MSNBC, and thats like, you know, the liberal leaning channel.

also i'll tell you why they complain, I bet you its because of this, watch as I connect the dots, Dray once said that more people were killed by a Tsunami than 9/11 so the Tsunami was worse, I felt that 9/11 was worse because it was unprovoked, violent, inhuman, and evil, The Gay community, I bet, feels that they are being oppressed against something that is still widely admitted, many people are racist, especially down south, but it is still a tacit subject and doesn't come up much, as well as not showing up much, although, it does, and I bet many African-Amerians lose their jobs because of it, but Homosexuality, it is still part of talk, remember, Look Son! This thread is Gay!, that is why they protest, because the world still hasn't accepted them, we dont say, Look Son, This Thread is a Nigger!, thats why right there, its that kind of oppression.

also, as for that diabetes thing, being refused to be covered because you have diabetes by a business or insurance company makes me think again of Universal Health Care coverage. And I agree, Diabetes is hard, i've known several people with it, diabetes is part of who you are, just like being a homosexual is, so you are being insulted in the same way as a homosexual, for who you are, there is nothing that you can do, its a medical problem, some people have a preference for their own sex, there is nothing they can do, its the way they are.

Also, yes i believe that would be worse than a Gay man not being able to become a Deacon for a Church, but again, on my personal list of change, universal healthcare, but either way, being refused a job and such for a preexisting condition that can't be helped is worse, but, in fact, this happens to Gays too.

Pedophiles damage something, children do not want to have sex with a man, they are not of legal age of consent and there could be long lasting implications on their phycological status. So even if they have that urge, it still wouldn't be the same, because it is harmful.

also, what about homosexuality in nature? that happens. Also, if Jesus did not condemn it, and he expressed love, forgiveness, and peace, then why wouldn't he accept someone for the way they are. Are you implying that Homosexuals KNOW its wrong to be Homosexual? Religious texts can't even be trusted all that much due to various translations and such, and even then, it is open to interpretation, but Jesus never once relates anything to homosexuality, because he preached, again, love compassion, forgiveness and peace.

I can cite God and where he says its wrong to be gay

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV) and Nihil, Sin is Sin in God's eyes. Lying about whether you did a chore is the same as murdering somebody in God's eyes, so in essence, no its not greater, its equal. God doesnt condemn the person, he condemns the Sin. The bible says to love the Sinner but hate the Sin, a clear difference. God condemns the sin that they choose to actively live in, not the actual person.

People have a tendency to not practice what they preach

Popes back in the Middle ages were not as you would call moral people, They lived in absolute luxury, called a crusade which cost millions to take back the holy land, a war which to this day rages..muslims, christians, jews

all in the name of God

You could buy forgiveness...

So with all this info, I tend to see the Roman Church as hypocritical to condemning sins. Though I do respect John Paul the second, Pius, and others. Some Popes do work for the betterment of man in more modern times. The gay could have been born into the religion before he realized he was gay. Does that mean he is predestined for hell for sinning? Does that mean he should quit the religion?

The gay community, no matter how stupid and silly worshipping a religion which hates them is, have the freedom of expression and worship.

But being cardinal or bishop, idk how they would even get to be one

Aragorn wrote:I can cite God and where he says its wrong to be gay

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV) and Nihil, Sin is Sin in God's eyes. Lying about whether you did a chore is the same as murdering somebody in God's eyes, so in essence, no its not greater, its equal. God doesnt condemn the person, he condemns the Sin. The bible says to love the Sinner but hate the Sin, a clear difference. God condemns the sin that they choose to actively live in, not the actual person.

Would like to point out btw

Qur'an = Only Bible based on the Jewish/Christian/Muslim faith that hasn't had a bitchy Monk fuck with it.

Yeah You saw it! Christian/Muslim! Same fing except Isalm is the Christianity to Christianity. (Aka Judaism ---> Christianity after a Prophet/Messiah ---> Islam after a Prophet/Messiah)

Btw Most Muslims are actually peaceful (Islam = Peace in Arabic...)

"Muslim" Terrorists = Not fing Muslim, they're fing giving the religion the finger.

Although I still dislike Islam, aka the people to fing religiously devoted...

Wow, that brat actually brought me into this?

Anyway, Nihil, it does not matter biased or non biased, point is, Christianity is a organization, and in that organization, they have the right to put whatever rules they want. Its THEIR organization. this has nth to do with morality, this is human's rights.

A Man has the right to let anyone he wants in his property, as well as exclude anyone he doesnt want. The Pope doesnt want gay people in his shit. Fine. He has the right to do that, thats what freedom is about. Will this bite him in the back, by making ppl leave his property? Sure, thats the beauty about freedom too. Dont fucking bring biasis and shit like that over here again, has nothing of important. The Church has the right to say who and who not to let in. Its their right, be it morally right or wrong. And you have the choice to stay or leave. Its your right.

well dray, i just used what you once said as an example to back me up, even though it wasn't related.

also, i think that there should be a law protecting their rights within religious communities, srry if it is anti-freedom but thats what i think there should be

it is anti freedom, becuz to be in a specific religion/cult, you abide by those rules. if you dont like those rules anymore, you can gtfo kkthxbai.

but like i was saying about that, society is becoming more liberal about that, just look at Michael Moore.

look, whatever you think about Roman Catholics is your opinion, and everyone has theirs. Truth is, everyone has a right to opinion, Roman Catholics is a religion, with pre made rules. If you wanna abide by those rules, fine, abide by them and they accept you in their religion. If you dont, thats fine too, but dont expect to be accepted there. Their point of view is opposite to yours, and you being forced upon them by law, is the same as invading a country, or oppressing a race. Its like Germany invading France(again) and changing their laws. You are disrespecting THEIR opinions and internal rules. You are oppressing freedom becuz you dont agree with them. You become the villain. It doesnt matter if society is more liberal. If they dont wanna be liberal, fine, let them. They still have to obey country laws, and they do. And this can be said to any corporation. If they wanna be stupid and refuse good employees for personal traits, let them. its their loss.

unless it violates a law, thats where i feel that it conflicts, i feel that their denial of Gays in that manner conflicts with the more important laws, those of liberty, justice, and equality.

also, dray, i know what you are saying, but i feel, like i was saying, that society has become more liberal about these things, again, hence Michael Moore.

No its not breaking justice, liberty and equality. Thats the double edged sword of having equality and freedom. Religion is not a government business or faction. It is a private corporation so to speak, a private cult or clan. They accept who they want to accept, and they 'fire' who they want to. The Bible is their law, and if you are Christian, you agree with the Bible. If you no longer agree with the Bible, you are no longer abiding by Christian law, hence, you are a law breaker, hence, you are excomungated(exiled) from their religion. The law may be stupid, but Christianity has the right and liberty to fire you. Denying them that would be oppressing their freedom. It is not affecting you, other then in theological level. Bishops are jobs, true, but just like i cant be a civil engineer cause i dont have the education for it, you dont have the demanded pre requisites they ask for the job(not being gay, not sinning, etc etc). If you go to a job interview, you need to look good, have a nice curriculum, be a nice employee so forth so forth. Apply that equation to religion.

Dray The Fingerless wrote:No its not breaking justice, liberty and equality. Thats the double edged sword of having equality and freedom. Religion is not a government business or faction. It is a private corporation so to speak, a private cult or clan. They accept who they want to accept, and they 'fire' who they want to. The Bible is their law, and if you are Christian, you agree with the Bible. If you no longer agree with the Bible, you are no longer abiding by Christian law, hence, you are a law breaker, hence, you are excomungated(exiled) from their religion. The law may be stupid, but Christianity has the right and liberty to fire you. Denying them that would be oppressing their freedom. It is not affecting you, other then in theological level. Bishops are jobs, true, but just like i cant be a civil engineer cause i dont have the education for it, you dont have the demanded pre requisites they ask for the job(not being gay, not sinning, etc etc). If you go to a job interview, you need to look good, have a nice curriculum, be a nice employee so forth so forth. Apply that equation to religion.

huh, fair enough, there it is then.^^

....so christianity is like a big JKA clan?

We dont need to hear about gays bein removed. There are too many of them as it is. Let alone in High Church Positions? And if you want him dead get Ezio. ALtair sucks in AC1. Couldnt even sucker punch a bald guy in heavy armor and a cloak.

For the record

Church Officals have been known to rape lil boys

Nihil wrote:Because i'm sure that the pope has sinned too

and besides, what power is there that allows the pope to control Catholic churches outside of his country? I.E the vatican City?

People just don't get it...

Christianity confirms that man sins, but he is not excused for being homosexual, because he knows it's wrong when he's in a CHURCH position.

Can we please not have kill and pope in the same sentence, or president for that matter. I really dont want a bunch of suits wasting there time on our forum when they could be catching real bad guys cause someone has to push their agenda on others.

Thts exactly wat i was thinking champ