Conservatives Get What They Want! I.E (A House on Fire)

Aragorn wrote:

Nihil wrote:

Aragorn wrote:

Nihil wrote:

Aragorn wrote:

Nihil wrote:Ara, it is NOT common practice to do the conservative thing that they did, which is making the people outside the county pay a fee, as a result of WHAT I SAID ABOVE.

Do you need to know that some animals died in that fire? 3 dogs and a cat, now go defend the homocide of three dogs and a cat, i dare you.

Aard, you are immediately saying that they did not pay it by saying that it was "something simple" and that you don't "accidentally forget" something like that. THAT IS HUMAN INFALLIBILITY, mmk?

And aard, would that extra 75 dollars made that much of a difference in the overall expenditure?

Also, again, you assumed that they intentionally didn't pay it.

So did you Freedom, assuming that they intentionally didn't pay it.

So it's not normal? You butthurt over it? Doesn't matter if it's not normal practice, it's the practice there. I am not defending them at all. I've said TWO TIMES that what they did was wrong but what is being said is they lost their house over 75 bucks, 7 bucks a month. That's a stupid reason.

so, are you agreeing with me, that this conservative practice out in Tennessee is stupid and that they should have helped or not?

No, I'm not. I'm agreeing that this wasn't handled incorrectly. I still fail to see how this has anything to do with conservatism.

O.K so are you trying to justify the murder of three dogs and a cat?

This deals with conservatism because it is not a liberal decision, it deals more with the fallibility of the human, having to pay for social services which otherwise would be free. So it is a conservative decision.

So from your own words since it isn't a liberal decision it must have to do with conservatism and therefore it's bad and lets bash the party even more to further my liberal agenda and beliefs. Nihil, your passive aggressiveness is so annoying. I am not justifying this at all. For the 4th time. How the situation was handled was done POORLY. Does that seem like justification to you? They do use taxes to pay for the service WITHIN the county. This was OUTSIDE the county of the firefighters responding to the call hence why the money played a factor. I've already said this...

No son this deals with Conservatism because Conservatives believe in taking responsibility for your actions. This is a concept that many in this world do not expect or refuse to follow. You protect yourself every way you can because there is NO ONE out there that is OBLIGATED to help you. no one owes you anything unless you PAY for a service. You go to a restaurant and order and pay for a meal THEN that establishment OWES you. but that's it.


BTW double post FTW

Ptolemy wrote:That fee had been in place for 20 years. It would be interesting to see if he ever paid it.

I am also sure that this is not the first time this has happened either.

I would also be interested in knowing what kind of taxes the guy pays now in the county he is in. It is not the responsibility of a neighboring county to offer that protection.

Thing is he knew that he needed to pay the fee and he knew that his county didn't offer that service. I actually have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy. he had opportunities to protect himself and he didn't take advantage. From burning trash close to the home to living in a county with no fire protection to not paying the fee. This is as much his fault as it is the FD for not rolling up and putting it out.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, it seems, only goes so far in this day and age. At least he had SOME insurance. not enough by his own admission but he had some... he didn't even do that right.

See, I told you you got what you wanted. You have again assumed human infallibility, and yes, it IS the neighboring counties' job to provide these social services since the place he lives in is not a city. HE wasn't burning trash, his son was. You also assume he has enough money to PAY for insurance. Which is pretty funny, because not everyone gets to enjoy the same quality of life that you and I do.

I am arguing that this system, which is essentially a privatized fire fighting system, paying instead of taxing, did not save the lives of their pets and did not save their house.

Nihil wrote:

Ptolemy wrote:That fee had been in place for 20 years. It would be interesting to see if he ever paid it.

I am also sure that this is not the first time this has happened either.

I would also be interested in knowing what kind of taxes the guy pays now in the county he is in. It is not the responsibility of a neighboring county to offer that protection.

Thing is he knew that he needed to pay the fee and he knew that his county didn't offer that service. I actually have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy. he had opportunities to protect himself and he didn't take advantage. From burning trash close to the home to living in a county with no fire protection to not paying the fee. This is as much his fault as it is the FD for not rolling up and putting it out.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, it seems, only goes so far in this day and age. At least he had SOME insurance. not enough by his own admission but he had some... he didn't even do that right.

See, I told you you got what you wanted. You have again assumed human infallibility, and yes, it IS the neighboring counties' job to provide these social services since the place he lives in is not a city. HE wasn't burning trash, his son was. You also assume he has enough money to PAY for insurance. Which is pretty funny, because not everyone gets to enjoy the same quality of life that you and I do.

I am arguing that this system, which is essentially a privatized fire fighting system, paying instead of taxing, did not save the lives of their pets and did not save their house.

You assume that i want to be as miserable as you. You assume that i want every one to be as miserable as you. You would be wrong. I cannot save you from yourself, nor would i try to.

As a Conservative, i want everyone to be as happy and prosperous as they can be. I want you to be successful. I want you to have access to the same opportunities as i had and more. I want you to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for your actions. It is not my call, or responsibility to provide services that were not paid for. That FD is a PUBLIC service that extended their coverage OUTSIDE of their area for a fee. A fee that has been in place for 20 years. If they too much guff for this they may stop offering the service thus leaving these folks with no protection at all.

By stating that I "enjoy" a miserable life, you thus imply that you do too by the semantics of my own post.

Again Ptolemy, you are getting it wrong, they have to cover that area, no area may be left without a fire department, and even if this wasn't so, should pure human fallibility, an innocent mistake, really cause this much pain and grief for a family? I say no, you say yes. What else is there to be said?

And even if we never know if he purposely didn't pay it or forgot to, does that really justify your point, that letting the house burn down was fair because of the way that they ran the fire department, highly privatized compared to the regular publicized sector?

that is not a private fire department. It is a public service paid for by the taxes of that county.

This happened in a different county. Did you not read the article? Things have been this way for 20 years. If there was an issue, there was 20 years to get it resolved. 20 years, of paying what ever fee. and this guy 'forgets'. i doubt it. he is like the rest of your liberal constituents. wait for something bad to happen and expect someone else to clean his mess. It is neither my job nor responsibility to save you from your self.

This is a question of Personal responsibility and expecting someone else to pick up after you mess up. His neighbor paid the fee. he had access to the service.

And yes i LOVE being miserable... Just as miserable as you are... as you must be cause the way you are a pain in most ppls ass you have to be miserable. you make no sense... still...

Ptolemy wrote:that is not a private fire department. It is a public service paid for by the taxes of that county.

This happened in a different county. Did you not read the article? Things have been this way for 20 years. If there was an issue, there was 20 years to get it resolved. 20 years, of paying what ever fee. and this guy 'forgets'. i doubt it. he is like the rest of your liberal constituents. wait for something bad to happen and expect someone else to clean his mess. It is neither my job nor responsibility to save you from your self.

This is a question of Personal responsibility and expecting someone else to pick up after you mess up. His neighbor paid the fee. he had access to the service.

And yes i LOVE being miserable... Just as miserable as you are... as you must be cause the way you are a pain in most ppls ass you have to be miserable. you make no sense... still...

Let me try to explain it to you this way, since you refuse to accept the fact that humanity is fallible. I believe I said that it was like a more privatized system than a public one since it is because, essentially, it is a quitrent. Rather than providing for the common good, as the fire department is supposed to do, it provided for those who paid. This system is in affect, highly conservative, you can pay or you don't, if you don't have enough money or financial room to pay for it, too bad, if you forget too bad. Rather than it being a simple tax, which would allow lower income families to gain access to this public service, it is reserved for those who can pay.

Ptolemy, you have a lot of reading to do, since it would seem that you have forgotten the entire purpose of the local, state and national government, to provide for the common good. By saving the lives of those animals, you have justified theirs deaths, and putting out the flames, they would have done what any normal fire fighting unit in america would have done. But, they used it as a relatively decentralized system. You can't put a price on health Ptolemy, otherwise, you have put a price tag on the soul and welfare of a human being. The people who create Republics and democracies understand this, it is the core reason for the existence of government, to promote the common welfare. By forcing people to pay for a service that does indeed promote the common welfare, it has taken a drastically conservative approach to something that is just common sense.

But really Ptolemy, have you ever forgotten something? If you have, then I think you can relate to these poor folks. If not, then you are a demi-god or god. Whichever you would prefer.

Also, Ptolemy, I'm 16, why would you call a 16 year old boy miserable, albeit, by the same token, given the semantics of my other post, you would be too?

I think a boy and an older man can have a reasoned debate without degrading into this, don't you?

Nihil wrote:

I think a boy and an older man can have a reasoned debate without degrading into this, don't you?

Dude, you started this whole thing because it bashes conservatism. You were already bashing our political beliefs by posting this. The title says at all and you BLAME conservative economic principles on this. By your first post you already degraded whatever debate followed in this thread. Don't blame Ptolemy for degrading anything when he really hasn't.

the fd is from another county and under no mandate to provide services out side of that county.

When i forget something i do not complain i deal with it.

The FD IS funded by taxes. Not the taxes of the other county.

Just because you say something does not make it so. I am not my brother's keeper but, i will help where i can. if it was that big a deal, they would have lobbied for higher taxes to provide a FD in their county. since they had another option they did not think it needed.

I will quit calling you miserable just to remove the distraction.

Borderline flamebaiting you two.

Ptolemy wrote:the fd is from another county and under no mandate to provide services out side of that county.

When i forget something i do not complain i deal with it.

The FD IS funded by taxes. Not the taxes of the other county.

Just because you say something does not make it so. I am not my brother's keeper but, i will help where i can. if it was that big a deal, they would have lobbied for higher taxes to provide a FD in their county. since they had another option they did not think it needed.

I will quit calling you miserable just to remove the distraction.

The "pay to spray" program is only popular in rural Tennessee, hell, even your hardline conservatives and libertarians are jumping off this sinking ship because of the results, see the national review for instance. This ultra conservative stance has outraged everyone... except for you. What is it about a burning man's house that you seem to find so particularly enjoyable and just?

Also, seeing as their county was outside of the city and had a small population, what voice do you think they actually had in the matter?

Also, do you REALLY think that places in America don't have police departments and fire departments as services? Really? That is plain stupid. They are serviced by cities, they actually get service.

Also, if you don't think you are going to win, jump off ship too, because just calling me names isn't helping your intellectual case.

EDit:

And if you won't listen to me, then maybe you will listen to one of the most important polymaths who has ever lived:

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
- Isaac Asimov