Uprising
+7
Ptolemy
Nihil
Thing
Champion
Stamp-dc
Chaos
IronRat
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Uprising
In warsaw rebels memory...
IronRat- Join date : 2009-10-22
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Re: Uprising
hmmmm interesting.... ; )
Stamp-dc- Join date : 2009-10-23
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Re: Uprising
Polish people got so fucked in that war. There were so many losers in WW2... so few winners (can anyone be called a winner?)
Champion- Founder
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Re: Uprising
I can ?
Thing- Senator - Forum Enforcer
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Re: Uprising
I counter with
THE BIELSKI PARTISANS AND OSWALD RUFEISEN
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007563
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007238
I did a holocaust research project on Jewish Resistance and this group and person impressed me the most.
I strongly encourage you to read them both, it's amazing i promise.
THE BIELSKI PARTISANS AND OSWALD RUFEISEN
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007563
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007238
I did a holocaust research project on Jewish Resistance and this group and person impressed me the most.
I strongly encourage you to read them both, it's amazing i promise.
Nihil- Join date : 2009-10-23
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Re: Uprising
Champion wrote:Polish people got so fucked in that war. There were so many losers in WW2... so few winners (can anyone be called a winner?)
You do not win a war you just beat the other guy into submission.
Then you get to write the history and make war sound glorious...
Ptolemy- Chancellor - Masters Council
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Re: Uprising
I wonder where we would be if we could all cooperate in the world, for once, instead of fight?
Nihil- Join date : 2009-10-23
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Re: Uprising
Good will always have to oppose evil so there will always be conflict.
Ptolemy- Chancellor - Masters Council
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Re: Uprising
I don't necessarily believe that people are inherently evil, just victims of circumstance and are different in culture and views.
Nihil- Join date : 2009-10-23
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Re: Uprising
Ptolemy wrote:Good will always have to oppose evil so there will always be conflict.
Circumstances do not matter. Hitler was evil and had to be stopped.
Ptolemy- Chancellor - Masters Council
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Re: Uprising
Seriously though, you guys should read these
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007563
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007238
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007563
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007238
Nihil- Join date : 2009-10-23
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Re: Uprising
Ptolemy wrote:Ptolemy wrote:Good will always have to oppose evil so there will always be conflict.
In this instance circumstances do not matter. Hitler was evil and had to be stopped.
Can you agree with this statement?
Ptolemy- Chancellor - Masters Council
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Re: Uprising
sure, but i'm saying that his was a circumstantial edifice, prompted by the Weimar Republic's hyperinflation and his own hyper-nationalism.
He had to be stopped, but, I believe, that there can be put a stop to influential evil, like Hitler's, because not all of Germany was evil, simply victims of circumstance.
In a way, I'm saying that evil needs to be stopped but also need not exist through better services, such as education, and standards of living.
srry, not to say that there will never BE any evil, there are always things outside our control, but we can help stem the conditions that prompt it.
He had to be stopped, but, I believe, that there can be put a stop to influential evil, like Hitler's, because not all of Germany was evil, simply victims of circumstance.
In a way, I'm saying that evil needs to be stopped but also need not exist through better services, such as education, and standards of living.
srry, not to say that there will never BE any evil, there are always things outside our control, but we can help stem the conditions that prompt it.
Nihil- Join date : 2009-10-23
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Re: Uprising
oh hell...
there is a God!!!
i have to agree there are circumstances that necessitate certain courses of action. there are those who cannot rise above their environment and turn to activities that are considered evil.
However persons like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot. These men were evil and needed to be stopped. I realize not all of these were deposed by the US by force of arms.
there is a God!!!
i have to agree there are circumstances that necessitate certain courses of action. there are those who cannot rise above their environment and turn to activities that are considered evil.
However persons like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot. These men were evil and needed to be stopped. I realize not all of these were deposed by the US by force of arms.
Ptolemy- Chancellor - Masters Council
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Re: Uprising
Ptolemy wrote:oh hell...
there is a God!!!
i have to agree there are circumstances that necessitate certain courses of action. there are those who cannot rise above their environment and turn to activities that are considered evil.
However persons like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot. These men were evil and needed to be stopped. I realize not all of these were deposed by the US by force of arms.
Was Lenin that bad of a person?? Not to sound stupid or ignorant, just curious
Ðaaaaa- Join date : 2009-10-22
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Re: Uprising
found here I know this is a lot to read so i bolded the salient points.
The moment Lenin stepped into power, he knew what he wanted. All along, ever since the start, Lenin had wanted a Proletariat Revolution, which had been acheived, and then a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, in which he would rule on their behalf. His government would have complete power and the people would not have any opportunity to decide if they wished to be controlled by other parties. Marx had said in his writings that this was necessary to put down all opposition and put Communist reforms into place.
All political parties had been banned and party committees were set up all over to govern Russia. The most important committee was the Central Committee, made up of 3 sub-committees called the Orgburo, the Politburo and the Secretariat. When Lenin promised that a Consituent Assembly would be formed, he fulfilled his promise by holding elections immediately. However, it met only once and was disbanded shortly after.
The Bolsheviks had a secret police known as the Cheka. A Polish-born Communist by the name of Felix Dzerzhinsky was appointed the head of the Cheka. Their job was similar to that of the Okhrana, to hunt down opponents and critics of the Bolsheviks. These people were arrested, jailed, tortured and killed. The Cheka attacked many groups, including the Liberals, the Mensheviks and the SRs.
War Communism
Lenin hoped to move gradually into Communism through economic reforms. The Civil War increased the need for this to be implemented, as the soldiers needed food and other supplies. The peasants also had to supply the Red Army with food to continue fighting. The Reds needed clothes and other equipment if they wanted to win the war. As such, Lenin made the critical and crucial decision to introduce a great economic programme to help the Bolsheviks win the war. This programme was known as War Communism.
War Communism in terms of Agriculture
Communism was implemented in terms of agriculture in 1917, to supply the soldiers with enough food later on. The first measures of peasant land seizure were put in place, followed by nationalisation of all land - meaning the state now owned the land. However, it was put under the peasants' control, basically meaning that they had the use of the land and they could do whatever they liked with it.
Insufficient grain was reaching the cities for certain reasons, so the government introduced grain requisitioning. Excess food (as deemed by the government) was seized, often with Cheka support. THe government paid a very low price for this grain and there was, of course, widespread resistance to this. Most peasants would rather burn their crops and kill their livestock than hand them over to the Cheka. However, being found out would mean terrible consequences for the offenders. This resulted in an acute shortage of food and a great famine in 1920 and 1921 respectively. About 7.5 million Russians died from starvation and disease during the civil war
War Communism in terms of Industry
All large-scale businesses were nationalised too, and without compensation. This was extended to all businesses with ten or more people by the end of 1918. In conjunction with communism, all private trade was abolished. The government controlled the people's food with ration cards and the workers were paid through food rations. The workers were directed where to work and strikes were made illegal.
Although the industries did function and the Red Army was supplied, industrial production declined. Starving workers went into the countryside to look for food and the distribution and trasnportation system was in such bad shape that the extra strain put on them by the civil wars caused them to collapse almost completely. Factories had to close down as raw materials were not reaching them on time and fuel was in short supply. There had been many illegal strikes by the time the civil war ended, as workers had become increasingly dissatisfied with War Communism.
The moment Lenin stepped into power, he knew what he wanted. All along, ever since the start, Lenin had wanted a Proletariat Revolution, which had been acheived, and then a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, in which he would rule on their behalf. His government would have complete power and the people would not have any opportunity to decide if they wished to be controlled by other parties. Marx had said in his writings that this was necessary to put down all opposition and put Communist reforms into place.
All political parties had been banned and party committees were set up all over to govern Russia. The most important committee was the Central Committee, made up of 3 sub-committees called the Orgburo, the Politburo and the Secretariat. When Lenin promised that a Consituent Assembly would be formed, he fulfilled his promise by holding elections immediately. However, it met only once and was disbanded shortly after.
The Bolsheviks had a secret police known as the Cheka. A Polish-born Communist by the name of Felix Dzerzhinsky was appointed the head of the Cheka. Their job was similar to that of the Okhrana, to hunt down opponents and critics of the Bolsheviks. These people were arrested, jailed, tortured and killed. The Cheka attacked many groups, including the Liberals, the Mensheviks and the SRs.
War Communism
Lenin hoped to move gradually into Communism through economic reforms. The Civil War increased the need for this to be implemented, as the soldiers needed food and other supplies. The peasants also had to supply the Red Army with food to continue fighting. The Reds needed clothes and other equipment if they wanted to win the war. As such, Lenin made the critical and crucial decision to introduce a great economic programme to help the Bolsheviks win the war. This programme was known as War Communism.
War Communism in terms of Agriculture
Communism was implemented in terms of agriculture in 1917, to supply the soldiers with enough food later on. The first measures of peasant land seizure were put in place, followed by nationalisation of all land - meaning the state now owned the land. However, it was put under the peasants' control, basically meaning that they had the use of the land and they could do whatever they liked with it.
Insufficient grain was reaching the cities for certain reasons, so the government introduced grain requisitioning. Excess food (as deemed by the government) was seized, often with Cheka support. THe government paid a very low price for this grain and there was, of course, widespread resistance to this. Most peasants would rather burn their crops and kill their livestock than hand them over to the Cheka. However, being found out would mean terrible consequences for the offenders. This resulted in an acute shortage of food and a great famine in 1920 and 1921 respectively. About 7.5 million Russians died from starvation and disease during the civil war
War Communism in terms of Industry
All large-scale businesses were nationalised too, and without compensation. This was extended to all businesses with ten or more people by the end of 1918. In conjunction with communism, all private trade was abolished. The government controlled the people's food with ration cards and the workers were paid through food rations. The workers were directed where to work and strikes were made illegal.
Although the industries did function and the Red Army was supplied, industrial production declined. Starving workers went into the countryside to look for food and the distribution and trasnportation system was in such bad shape that the extra strain put on them by the civil wars caused them to collapse almost completely. Factories had to close down as raw materials were not reaching them on time and fuel was in short supply. There had been many illegal strikes by the time the civil war ended, as workers had become increasingly dissatisfied with War Communism.
Ptolemy- Chancellor - Masters Council
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Re: Uprising
mmk then...thanks for the info
Ðaaaaa- Join date : 2009-10-22
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Re: Uprising
Ptolemy wrote:oh hell...
there is a God!!!
i have to agree there are circumstances that necessitate certain courses of action. there are those who cannot rise above their environment and turn to activities that are considered evil.
However persons like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot. These men were evil and needed to be stopped. I realize not all of these were deposed by the US by force of arms.
I am very much against war but the reality of what those men would have done to humanity and culture were they to gain power was warrant enough to use force against them, and righteously so.
Champion- Founder
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Re: Uprising
Hence why i dont believe in karma. Else a man like Kim Jong Il wouldnt be around.
Dray The Fingerless- Senate Representative
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Re: Uprising
There are reasons why people would believe in Karma and so on, I've seen weird things happen, coincidental or not we'll never know...
But there are cases, where people that do something good, get rewarded later on, and same goes for bad people who get punished later on..Not all the time tho.
But there are cases, where people that do something good, get rewarded later on, and same goes for bad people who get punished later on..Not all the time tho.
SouLCasT- Join date : 2009-10-31
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Re: Uprising
SouLCasT wrote:There are reasons why people would believe in Karma and so on, I've seen weird things happen, coincidental or not we'll never know...
But there are cases, where people that do something good, get rewarded later on, and same goes for bad people who get punished later on..Not all the time tho.
Sounds like random chance to me. And with random chance its to be expected that certain anomalies will pop up in any given model.
Champion- Founder
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Re: Uprising
I honestly don't think Lenin was an evil man, he had an idea, not a very good one, but one that had profound affects on the course of history.
Nihil- Join date : 2009-10-23
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Re: Uprising
Lenin was a sick person. Twisted and evil. He slaughtered countless Russians for no reason, and his communistic view of war cost even more lives. The communist ideal is a noble one, but people like Lenin are the reason its never realized.
Champion- Founder
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Re: Uprising
I think that you are thinking of Stalin, not Lenin. Lenin didn't even want Stalin in charge.
Nihil- Join date : 2009-10-23
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