Which is likely to happen first, uptopia or dystopia?

by **Disturbed** Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:08 am

dystopia

by **Bulldog** Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:28 am

Neither and both, since we as humans are naturally rebellious but also dominating of each other. We live in a delicate balance of both, the balance of good and evil. It is the complex scale that is our society.

by **claudio** Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:33 am

Bulldog wrote:Neither and both, since we as humans are naturally rebellious but also dominating of each other. We live in a delicate balance of both, the balance of good and evil. It is the complex scale that is our society.

Which is likely to happen first, uptopia or dystopia? Kimy

True

by **Aardvark** Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:03 am

Dystopia, in order to have a utopia violence and lying would have to be ineffective means of obtaining desires. As it is now, they are the most effective means of getting what you want individually. People are selfish, they will always do what is best for themselves first and foremost.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:36 am

Extinction.

by Nihil Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:50 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:Extinction.

one word ownage ftw

by **Ptolemy** Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:18 pm

Aardvark wrote:Dystopia, in order to have a utopia violence and lying would have to be ineffective means of obtaining desires. As it is now, they are the most effective means of getting what you want individually. People are selfish, they will always do what is best for themselves first and foremost.

I have to agree except for one thing, i think many of us look out for ourselves and our family first and all else be damned. That is me. I will do waht ever i have to do to better the life of my wife and my son. this, by default, will improve my outlook as well.

by **Aardvark** Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:23 pm

Yes well, that view ties in with my theory that there is no such thing as a selfless act, that all actions are motivated by a selfish desire, even if that desire is simply to feel better about yourself as a person.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:28 pm

Aardvark wrote:Yes well, that view ties in with my theory that there is no such thing as a selfless act, that all actions are motivated by a selfish desire, even if that desire is simply to feel better about yourself as a person.

If you were to analize our epistemology, our logicality, our behaviour, you will be sad...

by **Aardvark** Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:31 pm

There's no real way to argue against my theory as I can always see a bonus for the person who acts. Not trying to force that view on people, just explaining why my first statement doesn't take into account such things like sacrifice and martyrdom.

by **Disturbed** Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:47 pm

ptolemy is one of a dying breed. Familiy structure particularly in the US is dying fast...because of this stupid idea of 'liberalism' or total freedom etc. that is telling ppl they need to be free and if not then screw the family for it. I am by no way a Republican or Democrat, but credit where it;s due. Republicans just have it right morally and with regards to structure (most of the time) but really suck at foreign policy.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:02 pm

Disturbed wrote:ptolemy is one of a dying breed. Familiy structure particularly in the US is dying fast...because of this stupid idea of 'liberalism' or total freedom etc. that is telling ppl they need to be free and if not then screw the family for it. I am by no way a Republican or Democrat, but credit where it;s due. Republicans just have it right morally and with regards to structure (most of the time) but really suck at foreign policy.

i do not think overvalueing blood relation is good. Family is important, when it is a proper family. you will not tell to my girl, whos parents would not let her go anywhere while she was 20 years old, who would not let her abandon university, even thou she was doing nothing she loved there, and when she found a job tutoring, they were against it. They put their ideals in front of hers, their looks to the world in front of her happiness. Family is important, until it stops acting like a family.

by **Ptolemy** Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:39 pm

well that could be interpreted in a couple of ways. that is still trying to improve her lot in life through education. personally at 20 you should be able to make your own decisions. it is, ultimately your own choice. Often when you are in the middle of something you do not see the benefit or damage, a course of action does. looking back my mom was right and i needed to get to college before i went into the military. but i did what i wanted and my life has been harder for it...

It is not ALWAYS personal gain, MANY times it is desiring your kids to be and DO better than you have. this is why Ara will finish college. i think it will be his decision not to drop out and dissapoint. Ultimately it is his decision tho

by **Dray The Fingerless** Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:42 pm

Ptolemy wrote:well that could be interpreted in a couple of ways. that is still trying to improve her lot in life through education. personally at 20 you should be able to make your own decisions. it is, ultimately your own choice. Often when you are in the middle of something you do not see the benefit or damage, a course of action does. looking back my mom was right and i needed to get to college before i went into the military. but i did what i wanted and my life has been harder for it...

It is not ALWAYS personal gain, MANY times it is desiring your kids to be and DO better than you have. this is why Ara will finish college. i think it will be his decision not to drop out and dissapoint. Ultimately it is his decision tho

its hard to make your own decisions when you get things like 'your living in our home, so you obey' kind of things. wich i think, is the opposite of parenting. You should be with your kids, not against them in every thing they do that you wish they didnt. Or for that matter, threaten them. My parents were always good, strict when needed, but when it came to decisions, they respect mine, and even if it goes against them, they wouldnt disown me.

by Nihil Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:15 am

Ptolemy wrote:
Aardvark wrote:Dystopia, in order to have a utopia violence and lying would have to be ineffective means of obtaining desires. As it is now, they are the most effective means of getting what you want individually. People are selfish, they will always do what is best for themselves first and foremost.

I have to agree except for one thing, i think many of us look out for ourselves and our family first and all else be damned. That is me. I will do waht ever i have to do to better the life of my wife and my son. this, by default, will improve my outlook as well.

I think that is the defining difference between a social conservative and a social liberal, I had been thinking about it for a while.

Ptolemy wrote:well that could be interpreted in a couple of ways. that is still trying to improve her lot in life through education. personally at 20 you should be able to make your own decisions. it is, ultimately your own choice. Often when you are in the middle of something you do not see the benefit or damage, a course of action does. looking back my mom was right and i needed to get to college before i went into the military. but i did what i wanted and my life has been harder for it...

It is not ALWAYS personal gain, MANY times it is desiring your kids to be and DO better than you have. this is why Ara will finish college. i think it will be his decision not to drop out and dissapoint. Ultimately it is his decision tho

At 18, you should leave a child alone, they are an adult, parents are only there until the child is an adult, until then, they can force whatever morals, rules, and other bs upon them as it is their home, as it is with my parents, but, honestly, why force when people should learn and decide for themselves.

but, w/e, still going with dray's first thing

"Extinction"

by **Disturbed** Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:48 am

Dray The Fingerless wrote:
Ptolemy wrote:well that could be interpreted in a couple of ways. that is still trying to improve her lot in life through education. personally at 20 you should be able to make your own decisions. it is, ultimately your own choice. Often when you are in the middle of something you do not see the benefit or damage, a course of action does. looking back my mom was right and i needed to get to college before i went into the military. but i did what i wanted and my life has been harder for it...

It is not ALWAYS personal gain, MANY times it is desiring your kids to be and DO better than you have. this is why Ara will finish college. i think it will be his decision not to drop out and dissapoint. Ultimately it is his decision tho

its hard to make your own decisions when you get things like 'your living in our home, so you obey' kind of things. wich i think, is the opposite of parenting. You should be with your kids, not against them in every thing they do that you wish they didnt. Or for that matter, threaten them. My parents were always good, strict when needed, but when it came to decisions, they respect mine, and even if it goes against them, they wouldnt disown me.

yeah and look where dray is now...an important admin on a star wars nerd site *parents clap* xD

bah tbh that;s a problem in some countries but the lame parenting in the US is just sad...how parents want to look cool to their kids and let them do anything. There are fucking 12 YEAR OLDS having sex in the state atm and I saw 2 midgets almost humping each other in this line at Six Flags not too long ago. I'd say parents are given that role to guide their children and if the children cannot be trusted to not destroy their lives every chance they get, they should try to fix them by whatever means, even if it means strict restrictions. Yes needlessly being strict on a kid that is pretty much doing nothing wrong and only wants to have a little fun (like hang out with friends from time to time) is stupid and makes the kid pissed off, but if a kid is trying to get too free and you notice it kick that moron back to the ground.

Enough of parents being too pussy to take control of their kids who turn out to be garbage ppl because they wanted to be hip in school/high school and ended up with teen pregnancy/drunk bum etc. then living off others tax dollars. Any parent who loves her/his child will not want that to happen and realize that kids are new to this world and don't even reason that well.

And this coming from someone who isn't that old himself Razz

by **Aureus** Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:10 am

Neither. Unless 2012 happens. Cuz well, ur fucked then XD

But I don't think Utopia could ever exist, at least in this world.

by **Disturbed** Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:08 am

Master CoG wrote:Neither. Unless 2012 happens. Cuz well, ur fucked then XD

But I don't think Utopia could ever exist, at least in this world.

yes we need to get rid of all the world leaders first

by **Aureus** Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:30 am

=P

Or at least Glenn Beck

by **Ptolemy** Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:14 pm

just Glenn? what about all the rest of the conservative movement? do they not deserve the same animus?

by **Disturbed** Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:41 pm

glenn beck is conservative? Thought he was a liberal lol....either way, he kinda sux but his views can't be brushed aside they need to be addressed so that he can stfu adn go home.

by **Ptolemy** Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:55 pm

well he is more of a libertarian. but libertarians are a bit farther to the right than say a republican.

Much smaller government MUCH less government intrusion into business personal and public lives. following the Constitution in a strict sense and not 'interpreting' it against the founder's intent.

by **Thing** Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:49 pm

So they're just tight asses?

by **MasterBaitinTroll** Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:09 pm

dystopia

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