Re: Selling M rated games to minor a crime?

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:31 pm

I know his opinion is that the game sucks, but i argued against his case that 'They should be off the shelves because i find them morally offensive', to wich i will say with pride 'If this game should be taken off the shelves and negated its right to be published and its creator's right to express his ideas, then i say the Bible should be banned as well since i find it morally offensive.' His opinion that it is repulsive and that it gives him nightmares is his, i have nothing against that. Was just arguing his, and yours, idea of removing things you dont like from being accessed by the public. Your house, your rules, but i dont really care about your house, your rules, because Wallmart, Gamespot and any other shop that sells games is NOT your house.

Suffice to say, you, and your kids, are not obliged to buy, see, even enter a shop that has these games. So it serves no purpose in complaining about their existence, because no one's views and morals are perfect and timeless, and if some people have lost enough prejudice to be able to take out their rage and feelings into somewhere safe, say, a video game, then one should not frown upon it.

On a side note, my kids will never see GTA until they are 15 or 16(Dont worry, this age here is the equivalent of your 18-20s), because it is not appropriate for them. If they do play them before that age, they will do so in my presence.

by **Ptolemy** Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:41 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:I know his opinion is that the game sucks, but i argued against his case that 'They should be off the shelves because i find them morally offensive', to wich i will say with pride 'If this game should be taken off the shelves and negated its right to be published and its creator's right to express his ideas, then i say the Bible should be banned as well since i find it morally offensive. His opinion that it is repulsive and that it gives him nightmares is his, i have nothing against that. Was just arguing his, and yours, idea of removing things you dont like from being accessed by the public. Your house, your rules, but i dont really care about your house, your rules, because Wallmart, Gamespot and any other shop that sells games is NOT your house.

Suffice to say, you, and your kids, are not obliged to buy, see, even enter a shop that has these games. So it serves no purpose in complaining about their existence, because no one's views and morals are perfect and timeless, and if some people have lost enough prejudice to be able to take out their rage and feelings into somewhere safe, say, a video game, then one should not frown upon it.

On a side note, my kids will never see GTA until they are 15 or 16(Dont worry, this age here is the equivalent of your 18-20s), because it is not appropriate for them. If they do play them before that age, they will do so in my presence.

With my belief in the constitution i have to say i would never advocate removal of such things from distribution. I think they should be more tightly controlled.

I do not think any one COMPLAINED that they were available, i was merely voicing an opinion in response to your own. I will not buy that type of game for me or my kid and would hope he has the sense to do the same. He is now an adult and can do what he likes as you can do what you wish. I server in the military and was ready to lay down my life for the principles rights and freedoms enumerated in the Constitution. to fight for and die, if required of me, to protect it and the rights of those in my country. I do not see how you can say that i would block anyone, of the proper age, from buying that game or complain that it is available. I would advise against it, most definitely. but still your choice.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:51 pm

And GTA isnt even that bad actually. I have played them, and yes, you kill people and yes, there are prostitutes and strip clubs, but
A)There is no actual nudity or sex(unless you count pixelated blocks moving, and its not even explicit, its implied sex) and the strip clubs are bikini girls crapilly dancing.
B)You, and Aragorn, and anyone else who plays JKA, does the same frowned upon practice i do when i play GTA, apart from point A, wich is to kill people. There is no such thing as 'fantasy violence'. There is violence, and violence is violence, wether you are playing Viva Pinata or Painkiller. And in all of them, you are rewarded for being the winner, even if that reward is just surviving(See Left 4 Dead). There is nothing wrong with practicing an immoral act in a videogame because it is the only place you should practice an immoral act, if anything else, to have a saner mind. The only problem people have with GTA is that you are the bad guy, and the game is a bit too close to reality amirite? Not really, Call of Duty is far more realistic, since you cna actually do thoe things in COD, you know, join the army and go to war, and you rack up 10x more deaths. So the problem is that you have sex and bad language available, amirite? Well yeah, i guess thats the problem...sex and bad language. Implied sex and bad language.

by **Red-X** Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:53 pm

BaStUn wrote:
Red-X wrote:
BaStUn wrote:San Andreas had great story, graphics, vehicles (the most) etc. But it wasn't for minors though

i havn't seen that "coffee" scene yet o_o
wut "coffee"

i think its called "hot coffee" something, involves the main character having sex and you get to control it

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:55 pm

Its a mod they made by hackin some hidden game systems. Rockstar removed the mechanic in later releases after the mod.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:02 pm

And painkiller is hellafun. It is, along serious sam, one of the funnest FPS ever to play. i mean, you have a gun that shoots trees at people. And thats not the best weapon either. Shame to see people try to take that away from me.

by **Aragorn** Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:39 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:And GTA isnt even that bad actually. I have played them, and yes, you kill people and yes, there are prostitutes and strip clubs, but
A)There is no actual nudity or sex(unless you count pixelated blocks moving, and its not even explicit, its implied sex) and the strip clubs are bikini girls crapilly dancing.
B)You, and Aragorn, and anyone else who plays JKA, does the same frowned upon practice i do when i play GTA, apart from point A, wich is to kill people. There is no such thing as 'fantasy violence'. There is violence, and violence is violence, wether you are playing Viva Pinata or Painkiller. And in all of them, you are rewarded for being the winner, even if that reward is just surviving(See Left 4 Dead). There is nothing wrong with practicing an immoral act in a videogame because it is the only place you should practice an immoral act, if anything else, to have a saner mind. The only problem people have with GTA is that you are the bad guy, and the game is a bit too close to reality amirite? Not really, Call of Duty is far more realistic, since you cna actually do thoe things in COD, you know, join the army and go to war, and you rack up 10x more deaths. So the problem is that you have sex and bad language available, amirite? Well yeah, i guess thats the problem...sex and bad language. Implied sex and bad language.

Yeah. I do think metal bands who demean women, talk about nothing but violence against multiple people should be removed from the shelves. There are kids who take these things seriously and act on them. I would rather have them off the shelves where there is no harm done than keep em there for some kid to come by and say "Hey this is cool. Let's go find a hooker and do this for real." It's happened before and it's not instilling good values in kids. There is such a thing as fantasy violence. The statement there is no such thing as fantasy violence is bull to the 10th degree because while it is violence, it's based in a fantasy world that can't actually happen. You can't run around with a lightsaber and cut off someones head. There IS such a thing as fantasy violence.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:44 pm

You can however take a sword and stick it in people. IT IS possible to shoot someone, it is possible to dismember someone. Just because it has 'impossible elements', lik any other game, there is a realistic level. GTA IS NOT THAT REALISTIC EITHER. a 16 year old cant go in a strip club or take a chopper and drive by another chopper. GTA has impossible elements, but it has realism mixed. You are excusing your acts of violence in JKA Aragorn, because it is violence, wether its in a fantasy world or in Liberty City, or in Purgatory. Lets talk on your level of violence then Aragorn. God of War, Dante's Inferno. Pretty violent games. Fantasy violence by your standards.

by **Aragorn** Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:22 pm

All those games are fantasy violence games because there was never any Greek God's nor a Kratos. Yes, you can swing a sword and do all that but that is violence, not fantasy violence. Definition of fantasy violence: Fantasy Violence - Violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life. It's easily distinguishable that you can't kill someone with a lightsaber nor can you take two blades seared to your skin with chains and kill gods and harpies because they don't exist. That is ALL fantasy violence.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:33 pm

Yes. it is. Your point being that fantasy violence, and games such as God of War and Dante's Inferno are ok to play and arent really a repulsive act, but Call of Duty, GTA, are not ok because they are not in a fantasy realm? I fail to see the part where fantasy violence is NOT violence. You have yet to proove me that. You just said its a violence commited in a fantasy realm or setting. My point is that fantasy violence is still violence, regardless if youre killing people with a lightsaber, that person is still dead because of you. You are basically saying "oh what i do in JKA is ok cause its not real, and therefore isnt really violence, but if it wasnt a lightsaber and it was instead a gun, it would be wrong, because you know, the weapon is what matters, not the act."and i would no more let my kid play GTA then i would let him play God of War.

Sigh, i grow tired of this argumentation. If you wish me to give you a better one to defend your position i gladly will, this one is eating my brain cells....

by **Aragorn** Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:54 pm

Dray The Fingerless wrote:Yes. it is. Your point being that fantasy violence, and games such as God of War and Dante's Inferno are ok to play and arent really a repulsive act, but Call of Duty, GTA, are not ok because they are not in a fantasy realm? I fail to see the part where fantasy violence is NOT violence. You have yet to proove me that. You just said its a violence commited in a fantasy realm or setting. My point is that fantasy violence is still violence, regardless if youre killing people with a lightsaber, that person is still dead because of you. You are basically saying "oh what i do in JKA is ok cause its not real, and therefore isnt really violence, but if it wasnt a lightsaber and it was instead a gun, it would be wrong, because you know, the weapon is what matters, not the act."and i would no more let my kid play GTA then i would let him play God of War.

Sigh, i grow tired of this argumentation. If you wish me to give you a better one to defend your position i gladly will, this one is eating my brain cells....

Well, to my standards, any game that is extensively bloody and gory is not ok with me. The most I can handle is HL:2. That is my limit. I wouldn't approve of my kids playing those games even though they are fantasy because it's completely unnecessary to show the blood and gore when you stab someone. Completely unnecessary. I never said fantasy violence isn't violence I said it was a different kind violence. Obviously you have to have violence for it to be fantasy violence, that's common sense. That's not what I was saying, at all.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:05 pm

Well you are argumenting its not the same, wich is what started this. I say it is the same as COD, halo, GTA, God of war. all that changes are the settings.

by **Aragorn** Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:11 pm

My argument remains the same. My argument was that games that bloody and that inappropriate should be taken off the shelves.God of War, GTA, CoD all those I don't like. There is no need for all that blood. Absolutely no need. It ruins the psychi of kids who get their hands on the game. There have been cases of kids doing things to real people that are in video games because of how violent the game is and what it represents. I don't want that, no thanks. I'm good.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:16 pm

There have also been people who were so patriotic and devoted to Church that they tried to burn the holy book of another religion.....If we are going to forbid certain things Ara because people take them too far, you will find a whole bunch of things you yourself love being demolished as well, because video games are just one case, religions, politics, tv, music, art, they all have examples of extremity. Food for example.

by **Aragorn** Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:19 pm

I see your point but we're not talking about everyone else would do. We would run into the trouble of who determines what is too much and blah blah blah. I am just saying what I would do. I realize they're extremes to everything and yeah, my view on this is quite extreme but its because I don't wan't my kids laying a game that has blood, gore and sex in it nor do I wan't my kids watching those tv shows or listening to that kind of music.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:20 pm

I would probably end up being a serial killer if all i had to play was Nintendo Wii Sports....

by **Aragorn** Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:25 pm

Well yeah. The games are so boring, you'd have to resort to SOMETHING else...

by **Thing** Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:40 pm

What you two are arguing about is taste.

de gustibus non disputandum est

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:48 pm

It started with tastes, but we were arguing about freedom of speech and extremity of ideas.

by Nihil Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:06 pm

Ptolemy wrote:Thst is not logic is is an opinion. you seem to take things said by others at face value seeing flaws in logic and refusing to see your own. Yes there have been some pointed out but you have refused time and again to budge. Being obstinate does not mean you are right Dray.

There is a difference between opinion and logic, not all opinions are logical and logic does not make some one agree.

I agree with my son that these games should not be out there and, since they are, they should be more tightly controlled. That is an Opinion. You also have the freedom to buy these games but the thing most forget is that with freedom comes responsibility. if you have those games in your house keep the kids from playing them. Do not let the kids watch you play them because games, music, art effect the way you think and act. color schemes have been proven to effect your mood and music can calm you down or get you worked up.

Yes i also agree that Porn is to readily available on the net. There are, how ever, may applications and filters that you can put on your computers and networks to block that stuff. But thats right many of you are against blocking access to anything under the guise of freedom of speech. Thing is, my network, my rules. My house, my rules. i have a filter on my network that blocks many sites based on porn and ultra violence. I did what i could to protect my kid from this crap.

I kinda like how Ptolemy, "freedom of speech" and "don't regulate markets", is saying this, but, then again, hey, I'm just sayin'

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:21 pm

You should of read further more Nihil.

by Nihil Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:08 pm

tightly controlled = regulation.

I'll let him sort out the ideological dispute therein.

by **Champion** Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:21 pm

I will interject that I find killing people in a video game a lot more disturbing than killing monsters or other fantasy creatures.

by Nihil Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:40 pm

I'm not saying I'm against regulating it, thought I should put that out there to clear up any confusion.

by **Dray The Fingerless** Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:42 pm

Champion wrote:I will interject that I find killing people in a video game a lot more disturbing than killing monsters or other fantasy creatures.

I find people the easiest to kill, since humans are the only monsters i know of in real life. Example of that is the most common enemy in videogames: nazis.

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